Question about Gulfstream

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That fits my 3 results I posted earlier:

1) Lie about it
2) Hide it
3) Rationalize the mistake

I know you are saying you made a decision but by saying others shouldn't do it then are you saying you made a mistake?

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1) At what point have I lied about anything?
2) By saying I went there, how did I hide anything?
3) No, I would not consider it a mistake, becuase the place (and it's management) has changed alot since I have been there. It is a very different establishment than it was when I worked there.

It worked for me, I'm not confident it will work for anyone now. So do you see me being an advocate of PFT? No, but I stand up for my descisions. Plain and Simple.

Just my .02
 
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It worked for me, I'm not confident it will work for anyone now. [ QUOTE ]


Why is that? How long did it take you to go from 0 to F/O with Pinnacle? Was it the F/O Program?
 
"aulthough mabye not the best descision"

Why do you say it might not have been the best decision? Do you regret going there? How do you respond to the general feelings that Gulfstream style PFT is bad for the piloting profession? (at least that's my general feeling..hehe).

Gulfstream hires street Capts sometimes who aren't PFT'ers. Hope none of them are ever given a bad time.
 
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"aulthough mabye not the best descision"

Why do you say it might not have been the best decision? Do you regret going there? How do you respond to the general feelings that Gulfstream style PFT is bad for the piloting profession? (at least that's my general feeling..hehe).

Gulfstream hires street Capts sometimes who aren't PFT'ers. Hope none of them are ever given a bad time.

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It is very tough to say. Without it, I wouldn't be where I am today. But, I completely understand now how it can have a negative effect on the industry. Also the fact that I knew nothing about the background of most of the management at GIA. (EAL Scabs) My uncle who was a 30 year veteran of Eastern lost all of his retirement because Lorenzo dipped into it in the last days of the airline. Last days that wouldn't have been possible without the actions of scabs. So nedless to say, when I figured out I payed money to a scab, I was pretty disheartened.

Overall it worked for me, but I saw many of my friends finish and get forced back into the career that they left. The whole situation sucks.

As for the street captains, they get fine treatment. And there are no more street captains being hired. A union (Teamsters) came on the property in Early 2002 ending out-of-seniority upgrades. Now anyone who finsihes and gets hired can upgrade at 1500 hours (no PFT).
 
9103M

Okay...what I hear you saying is you understand PFT is bad for the profession and you wouldn't/don't recommend that folks today take that route. At the same time you are saying it worked for you and you seem to have no regrets. You also seem to be pro-union and anti-scab.

Could you tell us more about your decision to go with Gulfstream and why you chose that route? Tell us your story? I don't mean to sound like Dr. Ruth but I'm curious.

I guess I'm not getting the part about how Gulfstream was good for you but is bad for people today?
 
Re: 9103M

RE: ATP
My instructor went there. He loved it, He is a great instructor and attributes it all to ATP. Plus you get a ton of multi time.
 
Re: 9103M

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Okay...what I hear you saying is you understand PFT is bad for the profession and you wouldn't/don't recommend that folks today take that route. At the same time you are saying it worked for you and you seem to have no regrets. You also seem to be pro-union and anti-scab.

Could you tell us more about your decision to go with Gulfstream and why you chose that route? Tell us your story? I don't mean to sound like Dr. Ruth but I'm curious.

I guess I'm not getting the part about how Gulfstream was good for you but is bad for people today?

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It's a long story but here we go......

As someone that had no idea about PFT I looked into GIA back in 2000. I got the usual line from marketing about how "121 time is good!". So I bit. I signed up, I already had my ratings. Then I discovered that this program had a name, PFT. I learned more about PFT and started to lean away from it. So I polled my peers for advice. And I'll be damned if it wasn't a 50/50 split for pro/anti PFT. My other choice that I had decided was by backup was ATA.

After a long time deciding, I went to GIA. One of the reasons I say I don't regret my descision to go to GIA is because ATA was my back up.... So now I would be about 30k in the hole with NO job....

Like I said, my ignorance on the subject was mostly what caused me to go to GIA. I thought hey, I can get started in my career so early, this is great! Later I started learning all about the rest of the industry.... Which gave me my pro-union and anti-scab views you see me with.

The basic point is that GIA worked out for me, mostly because of a long series of lucky descisons. I don't reccomend it because of some actions they have taken as of late with personal matters and that I cannot tell anyone in good faith they would get the same results.
 
Re: 9103M

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I don't reccomend it because of some actions they have taken as of late with personal matters and that I cannot tell anyone in good faith they would get the same results.

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What actions do you mean exactly, regarding personal matters?
 
Re: 9103M

"I don't reccomend it because of some actions they have taken as of late with personal matters and that I cannot tell anyone in good faith they would get the same results."

I'd like to hear you say you don't recommend it because it's bad for the upward progression of the piloting career in general...notwithstanding the personal benefits to you. I don't get the impression that's how you feel....so I give up.

On a side note...I fully understand ones possible ignorance of how the industry works. I was a low time Grand Canyon tour pilot during the CAL strike in the mid-80's. Lorenzo ran ads in the paper (I'm not kidding) looking for Capts and F/O's. F/O pay was 50K a year to fly right seat in a jet...seemed like a good deal to me. Thank Gawd I wasn't qualified for the job or I could have made a BIG mistake. I like to think that before I would have made that big mistake that I would have been "educated" by the proud men walking the line and would have changed my mind.

For the life of me, I'll never understand how someone could recommend the Gulfstream PFT program knowing what the downward potential is for ALL the industry if it catches on. By the way....it's already caught on in Europe where you have to buy into a job if you want to fly 737's for Ryan Air.
 
Re: 9103M

I personally would reccomend a route similar to what I took. .get your ratings from an FBO, and instruct to get your ratings..if possible fly charter on the side to build the multi-engine and maybe turbine time up.

I got alot of great experience and feel that I am a much more knowledgable pilot by teaching and passing my experience along to others.

It can be a long road, but since I was in the midst of college, I couldn't do any sort of accelerated program. Here I am, like 9103M also flying the little red tails.

As far as GIA...about 8 out of my new hire class were Gulfstrream people. I believe about 60 more just got put into the "hiring pool" from the program. I don't believe in the program...I personally think it's a bad idea, but I certainly have no say in how we do our hiring. There are several of my buddies that are waiting to get the required 1500 TT and 300 multi...very strong pilots, but I can't get them a referral because they dont meet that yet. All the while, these 600 hour guys are coming through that dropped down a hunk of cash to do that program instead of working to get the time necessary. It reallly really ticked me off while i was trying to get hired. I'd better stop
tongue.gif
We are all qualified pilots and there are several different ways to get in the seat. What interests me is how PFT will look to a future employer once these guys get to progress on towards a major carrier.

Anyways... alot of this profession is gambling... so much of it is luck and being at the right place at the right time. And even more is who you know, as getting hired is concerned.

Good luck and feel free to email me or IM me anytime!
 
PaulS

He said they owe him 30K...I'd say that's a pretty damn heavy "personal matter"....wouldn't you?
 
Re: 9103M

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I'd like to hear you say you don't recommend it because it's bad for the upward progression of the piloting career in general...notwithstanding the personal benefits to you. I don't get the impression that's how you feel....so I give up.


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Honestly I have those feelings too, but it is hard to make such a bold statement when I myself would be resposnible for adding to the chaos. See where I'm coming from? It is very hard not to sound like a hypocrite in this situation. I dont want to seem like I am stabbing any of my firends who did this in thier backs. It is very hard to describe when you have a change of heart such as this.
 
Re: PaulS

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He said they owe him 30K...I'd say that's a pretty damn heavy "personal matter"....wouldn't you?

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Actually that 30k number is if I had gone to ATA....

They owe me much less than that, but they owe me none the less. And infact it is such a small amount that is pissing me of to NO end about how stubborn and childish they are being about it.
 
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