Question 18v - New guidelines from the FAA

[My Flight Surgeon]

Not sure how they handle refusals in CA but here in NJ (from the drivers license point of view), you'd be better off taking the breath test and then getting your own blood test immediately afterwords if you felt there was a false positive.

The refusal would cause a revocation on it's own. My guess is the FAA would consider that an alcohol related offense. No?

Correct

 

[vertibird]

So, how's this for crazy? Last year I was arrested for a DUI (First offense, no prior drug or alcohol anything) and managed to avoid both the driver's license suspension AND any alcohol-related conviction (charge reduced to 'Dry' Reckless Driving). My BAC was .08 & .07 on two tests given. Time comes for my annual (2nd Class) physical. My usual AME cancelled my appt, so I had to last-minute reschedule with a new one. I disclosed all the details in 18v like a good boy and brought all the documentation per the FAA. The AME says: "I'm not sure what to do here, so I'm going call the FAA". The FAA (presumably without having any details) told him to defer my medical. So my application is now sitting in Oklahoma City. My medical has lapsed. I am now off the flight line and effectively out of work, & all with a clean record! I call the FAA daily and they tell me it is "In line for review". I have been told this may take up to 90 days. Anybody have any ideas what I can do?

 

[Inverted25]

So, how's this for crazy? Last year I was arrested for a DUI (First offense, no prior drug or alcohol anything) and managed to avoid both the driver's license suspension AND any alcohol-related conviction (charge reduced to 'Dry' Reckless Driving). My BAC was .08 & .07 on two tests given. Time comes for my annual (2nd Class) physical. My usual AME cancelled my appt, so I had to last-minute reschedule with a new one. I disclosed all the details in 18v like a good boy and brought all the documentation per the FAA. The AME says: "I'm not sure what to do here, so I'm going call the FAA". The FAA (presumably without having any details) told him to defer my medical. So my application is now sitting in Oklahoma City. My medical has lapsed. I am now off the flight line and effectively out of work, & all with a clean record! I call the FAA daily and they tell me it is "In line for review". I have been told this may take up to 90 days. Anybody have any ideas what I can do?

if your a AOPA member they have people who deal with this and can help push it along

 

[vertibird]

if your a AOPA member they have people who deal with this and can help push it along

Yeah, not so much. "Nothing we can do"... Paid $45 for that little bit of support...

 

[Inverted25]

Yeah, not so much. "Nothing we can do"... Paid $45 for that little bit of support...

Did you have the medical coverage? I had a issue awhile back and they pushed it through OK and kept me updated along the way. Got my medical two weeks after a defferal

 

[L B Fowler Jr MD]

So, how's this for crazy? Last year I was arrested for a DUI (First offense, no prior drug or alcohol anything) and managed to avoid both the driver's license suspension AND any alcohol-related conviction (charge reduced to 'Dry' Reckless Driving). My BAC was .08 & .07 on two tests given. Anybody have any ideas what I can do?

'arrested' is the problem. The FAA is one of the more un-pushable objects in the universe, but they will respond and with specific requirements! You will be able to get your medical back, most likely as a special issuance. It seems lately i am seeing responses in the 60 day time frame.

 

[vertibird]

60 days. Great. Plenty of time to find a prime spot under a bridge once I'm evicted. Some warning that my medical would be held up that long would have been nice. Any idea what those 'Specific requirements' might be so I can be prepared for them? "Cultures of Reportability" are apparently overrated.

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

I agree with Dr Fowler, it takes 60+ days and they may require you to be involved in a mon itoring program or they may just warn you and give you a clean medical. Jus have to sit back and wait.

 

[vertibird]

So, I'm probably going to lose my job, home and go bankrupt because I voluntarily disclosed my arrest as required? Am I the only one that finds this a little absurd?
I realize that this is water under the bridge, but my interpretation of the AME Guide is that he actually could have issued the certificate. Is this correct?

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

First, you are the one who drove after drinking.
Second, it was your responsibility to self-report the arrest to the FAA Safety Division within 60 days of the arrest.
Third, if they picked you up in a random review of your driving record and found you had not reported, they can revoke not only your medical but also your certificates.
By the way, it is the arrest, not the final outcome of the arrest that must be reported.

 

[DE727UPS]

Yeah, you have to report the arrest within 60 days to the FAA. Not just wait until your next medical and report it then on the application. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ams/investigations/airmen_duidwi/airman_faqs/

My reading of the FAQ's is that if you didn't know about the need to report (a separate report from the medical app), but you make that report when you find out , it might help your case. But since you've come this far in the process I'm not sure what good it would do you.

For years I always tried to stay under the FAA medical radar. Physicals are easy to pass. Check the square and you're good for another six months. Never thought it would happen to me but at 50 I had a minor medical issue that caused me to need a special issuance. As silly as it seems, you just have to go with the flow and deal with the FAA bureaucracy. I waited nearly three months to hear back and actually had to go on disability for a while at my job. For a while last year the FAA wasn't funded by congress and they shut down. I like to think the reason they are so slow getting back to you these days is because of a back log from last year. My AME made a call for me after about 10 weeks that seemed to help a lot.

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

Proactive AME's who do a high volume of medical exams are your best friend in dealing with the FAA. A phone call frequently can open the log jam.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I have had a special issuance for a good part of my carrier and just recently had to add more to it due to an unrelated issue to the fist SI popping up. Dr. Forred was of great and continue to be great guidance to my special issuance. I called the FAA one to two times a week. IIRC I had my new SI in less thn 60 days.

own the mistake and learn from it. You did the crime and now you are paying the fine. If you had reported to the FAA when it happened this most likely be a non-issue right now.

 

[Inverted25]

I have had a special issuance for a good part of my carrier and just recently had to add more to it due to an unrelated issue to the fist SI popping up. Dr. Forred was of great and continue to be great guidance to my special issuance. I called the FAA one to two times a week. IIRC I had my new SI in less thn 60 days.

own the mistake and learn from it. You did the crime and now you are paying the fine. If you had reported to the FAA when it happened this most likely be a non-issue right now.

so what happens with work when your waiting for your new SI?

 

[DE727UPS]

You burn your sick leave.

 

[vertibird]

The issue is not my complacency & inexcusable lapse of judgement, which I wholly 'Own', it is whether my case is being handled in compliance with FAA policies: I read them, I studied them as if my career depended on it. I am certain that I am in absolute compliance with every reporting directive established in both the FAA's own Airman DUI/DWI webpage and in FAR's 61/67. The only place you are required to report an arrest is in box 18v of the medical application. There is no requirement to report an arrest to FAA Investigations within 60 days, this imperative applies only to suspensions/revocations and alcohol-related convictions. If anyone has a specific citation to the contrary I implore you to share it so I may address any possible error with the FAA immediately.
The National Driver Registry shows only suspensions/revocations and alcohol-related driving convictions. Mine is clean. But for my voluntary & timely disclosure as prescribed on the medical application, the FAA would have no knowledge of the event. (Believe me, this thought has crossed my mind.)
Here is a link to the AME Guide regarding 18v on the medical application. It is clear to me that I do not meet the criteria for deferral, had the AME bothered to read it. (He clearly stated he did not know the rules, and instead had his nurse call the FAA who evidently, and in absence of the pertinent details, recommended deferral.)

Sorry all. I know I am raging against the machine here. It is clear to me now that I have no choice but to wait for the wheels of the FAA to slowly turn. I am certain that once somebody who has some authority, accountability, reason and knowledge of the regs reviews my case that my medical will be issued. That this may take 60 days, will be financially and professionally devastating, and needn't have happened at all is enough to drive me to... well, you know.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

You may contact a DUI/DWI investigator Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. CT at (405) 954-4848

Based on what I just read, if the charge gets knocked down to a non alchohol charge it doesn't need to be reported at all... Bu tthis document is 2 years old.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ams/investigations/airmen_duidwi/airman_faqs/

Let us know how it turns out. You may want to look into burning all your sick time, vacation, and possible any disability options you have at your company. If your cheif pilot is cool you may or may not want to bring him into the loop

 

[DE727UPS]

Now I see what you are saying Vertibird. In some states, you automatically get an administrative action upon arrest. They punch a hole in your drivers license and you have to meet state requirements to get a new license. I'm assuming your state doesn't do that. A re-read of the FAQ's below:

"Do I have to report anything other than alcohol-related convictions?
Yes, under 14 CFR Part 61, you must report alcohol-related administrative actions, whether a conviction took place or not. Arrests, administrative actions and convictions are also reportable under Part 67, the airman application for a medical certificate."

It doesn't say you have to report an arrest within 60 days, only administrative actions or convictions. I also re-read the first post is this thread and, based on your posts, I'd have to say your case didn't meet the "deferral criteria". Perhaps the AME was just being on the safe side protecting his butt, called the Feds, and they erred on the safe side protecting their butt, and you end up getting screwed. My experience with the FAA medical system (not the nice AME's I know) is that there is really no accountability. No checks and balances. They are just very slow, presumably understaffed, and probably backlogged from being shut down last summer. It's just very frustrating to not be able to get info on your case and, especially in your situation, to not be able to state your case to anyone and get an answer about what is going on.

With all that said, you could call the number Bandit posted. See what they say. But at this point getting a connection between FAA investigations and the folks who have to review your medical app would probably be a long shot. That's what you probably should have done on day one. But it's easy to say that in hindsight.

 

[DE727UPS]

First, you are the one who drove after drinking.
Second, it was your responsibility to self-report the arrest to the FAA Safety Division within 60 days of the arrest.
Third, if they picked you up in a random review of your driving record and found you had not reported, they can revoke not only your medical but also your certificates.
By the way, it is the arrest, not the final outcome of the arrest that must be reported.

I'm still confused as to why the Airmen DUI FAQ's don't mention "arrest" as reportable to FAA Security and Investigations Division (AMC-700)?

"Do I have to report anything other than alcohol-related convictions?
Yes, under 14 CFR Part 61, you must report alcohol-related administrative actions, whether a conviction took place or not. Arrests, administrative actions and convictions are also reportable under Part 67, the airman application for a medical certificate."

Is an arrest considered an administrative action for this? It appears you only have to report convictions and administrative actions. What am I missing? Clearly the arrest must be reported on the medical app, but I'm only talking about where it mentions part 61.

 

[L B Fowler Jr MD]

i would rec reading this entire thread going back to early 2011 and changes made. Dr. Forred addresses all of this (as he says so aptly - 'parental discipline' is excepted - everything else is reportable)