PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

chrisreedrules said:
You will. The airline is still offering the most growth. 700s are still coming from Envoy and are all slated for delivery by the end of 2017 plus there are still 900 options left to be exercised. I've heard that AAG has likely already exercised the remaining 900 options for PSA and that we may take delivery of those too before the 700s keep coming from Envoy. Hence why Pedro is telling Envoy the 700s are staying with them through 2018.

In the end, who knows though. Envoy will likely have several more of their 175 options exercised and other airlines will shrink/disappear over the next couple years. Buckle up, it's going to be a wild few years at the regional's. "YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT"!!!
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24 of the 40 remainimg 900 options have been exercised. Deliveries begin after the first 19 of 47 700 transfers from envoy. Expected by jan, 1. Once the 24 900's are complete, then 28 more 700's to come. Totals by dec 2016 in the neighborhood of 160 aircraft, 60 ish 900 ng's, 60ish 700's and remainder of old 200's. Then would expect those to fade away about decades end to be replaced with remaining 900 options. I say "ish" 'cause I don't have the document here with the exact #'s.
 
The company removed all of the documents from the website with the exact numbers. Also, PSA did not receive the 700's as were scheduled from Envoy. Just over a half a dozen were transferred. The old numbers are not valid anymore and the company has not released any updated numbers on the transfers.
 
tbstanto said:
The company removed all of the documents from the website with the exact numbers. Also, PSA did not receive the 700's as were scheduled from Envoy. Just over a half a dozen were transferred. The old numbers are not valid anymore and the company has not released any updated numbers on the transfers.
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I noticed that, but we are still taking on new tails each month. Little birdy says that even tho those graphics are gone, the fleet plan remains the same. 19 planes at 2-3/month is over 6 months, we are only 3 months into the process and have the appropriate #s on property.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
I noticed that, but we are still taking on new tails each month. Little birdy says that even tho those graphics are gone, the fleet plan remains the same. 19 planes at 2-3/month is over 6 months, we are only 3 months into the process and have the appropriate #s on property.
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Edit: tho the graphic is down, all pertinent info backing up the fleet growth plan is still available on our employee website, and has not changed.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
Edit: tho the graphic is down, all pertinent info backing up the fleet growth plan is still available on our employee website, and has not changed.
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Is PSA going to have 19 700's on property by November? I think there are 8 currently. Am I missing something?
 
To my knowledge, the hold up on the 700s has been the C Checks taking a lot longer than anticipated. Our growing pains aren't isolated to just the flight department.
 
Word has it that our MEC has reached a TA with the company. Rumor also has it that it includes changing our guaranteed interview to a flow ala Piedmont and Envoy. We'll see what they want from us for that and if it includes a meaningful increase. In my opinion, we shouldn't be giving up a damn thing. And the flow increasing to 12+ a month is in the interest of the company and the pilots.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Word has it that our MEC has reached a TA with the company. Rumor also has it that it includes changing our guaranteed interview to a flow ala Piedmont and Envoy. We'll see what they want from us for that and if it includes a meaningful increase. In my opinion, we shouldn't be giving up a damn thing. And the flow increasing to 12+ a month is in the interest of the company and the pilots.
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I have a feeling we'll be lucky to get 8/month. Based on what a lilttle birdy on the mec told me from the last round. Thank God the one guy finally spoke up and told themm to go stuff it before the MEC accepted what the company was about to offer; a real flow of only 5 a month. They wanted some other BS in there to do with our direct entry captains and not allowing qualified fo's to upgrade because they're going to hire enough direct entry captains. The committee was literally moments away from accepting the deal until someone on the MEC finally spoke up and told them that was crap and there was no way that that would go over with our pilot group. The survey we got last week was the result of that discussion.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
I have a feeling we'll be lucky to get 8/month. Based on what a lilttle birdy on the mec told me from the last round. Thank God the one guy finally spoke up and told themm to go stuff it before the MEC accepted what the company was about to offer; a real flow of only 5 a month. They wanted some other BS in there to do with our direct entry captains and not allowing qualified fo's to upgrade because they're going to hire enough direct entry captains. The committee was literally moments away from accepting the deal until someone on the MEC finally spoke up and told them that was crap and there was no way that that would go over with our pilot group. The survey we got last week was the result of that discussion.
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I hope they weren't about to accept any crap like that. In my opinion, anything less than 12 should be immediately voted down. We have the leverage at the moment and we should take advantage. They know they have to offer up something tangible in order to keep new hires coming. We shouldn't accept their first offer. AAG isn't going to let any of the wholly-owneds raise pay, and bonuses are still a ways off. A flow is really all we could possibly offer potential new hires moving forward. A meaningful flow offering meaningful movement.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
We'll get the flow, now just have to wait and see for the #'s.
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I've heard 6 from multiple sources. What a f%!ng joke if that's true. Why even bother? And if they ask for a single concession in exchange for that, just throw it back in their face. I wouldn't even counter offer. I would just laugh and tell them to step up when you are in the mood to make a serious offer.

I mean think about it... 6 /month is only 72 /year. That's still 15 years to get through number 1,000 on the seniority list. Granted with the coming attrition it might be more like 10 or 12 years, but all the same... The flow probably won't exist in 10 years anyway and we will be on the backside of the "pilot shortage".
 
chrisreedrules said:
I've heard 6 from multiple sources. What a f%!ng joke if that's true. Why even bother? And if they ask for a single concession in exchange for that, just throw it back in their face. I wouldn't even counter offer. I would just laugh and tell them to step up when you are in the mood to make a serious offer.

I mean think about it... 6 /month is only 72 /year. That's still 15 years to get through number 1,000 on the seniority list. Granted with the coming attrition it might be more like 10 or 12 years, but all the same... The flow probably won't exist in 10 years anyway and we will be on the backside of the "pilot shortage".
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There isn't a lot more spots AAG can give to PSA.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I've heard 6 from multiple sources. What a f%!ng joke if that's true. Why even bother? And if they ask for a single concession in exchange for that, just throw it back in their face. I wouldn't even counter offer. I would just laugh and tell them to step up when you are in the mood to make a serious offer.

I mean think about it... 6 /month is only 72 /year. That's still 15 years to get through number 1,000 on the seniority list. Granted with the coming attrition it might be more like 10 or 12 years, but all the same... The flow probably won't exist in 10 years anyway and we will be on the backside of the "pilot shortage".
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You have been in the 121 world for only a few months but you think you are entitled to 4-5 year flow? I am going on my 10th year and on my 3rd regional and the guys flowing from PSA/PDT/ENVY are all 13 or more years. You haven't even seen the agreement yet but it isn't 6 a month forever, there are multiple increases based on numerous factors including Envoy losing some percent of spots once their 824 guys flow. Eventually it will be about 6-7 year flow for everyone becuase that is the price point in which AAG saves money by replacing us at the regionals. You might want to take a step back instead of thinking you have it all figured out already. We aren't going to get 12 a month right now but over time it will improve, how hard is that to understand? Also only pilots off of probation will be able to vote if it does get sent out to the group. Your suggested negotiating tactic would stall the career progress for everyone at PSA, it is not as simple as walking into the room and demanding what you think is fair.
 
cybourg12 said:
You have been in the 121 world for only a few months but you think you are entitled to 4-5 year flow?
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Well, that's what they're telling new hires at PDT and the APC Envoy crowd is saying the same thing about new hires there.

The fact of the matter is that PSA is having significantly high attrition already, perhaps 20/month. What management has apparently failed to realize is that the higher the flow number is, the lower outside attrition is going to be.
 
cybourg12 said:
You have been in the 121 world for only a few months but you think you are entitled to 4-5 year flow? I am going on my 10th year and on my 3rd regional and the guys flowing from PSA/PDT/ENVY are all 13 or more years. You haven't even seen the agreement yet but it isn't 6 a month forever, there are multiple increases based on numerous factors including Envoy losing some percent of spots once their 824 guys flow. Eventually it will be about 6-7 year flow for everyone becuase that is the price point in which AAG saves money by replacing us at the regionals. You might want to take a step back instead of thinking you have it all figured out already. We aren't going to get 12 a month right now but over time it will improve, how hard is that to understand? Also only pilots off of probation will be able to vote if it does get sent out to the group. Your suggested negotiating tactic would stall the career progress for everyone at PSA, it is not as simple as walking into the room and demanding what you think is fair.
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First of all, I don't think I'm entitled to a single thing. I'm only interested in what is best for our pilot group now and in the future. What I'm telling you is that if we would like to staff our airline, keep airplane deliveries coming, and not park the 200s we need more than 6-7 /month. No one is going to wait around for 15 years to flow to mainline and more importantly, it isn't going to work to attract new hires. Envoy is flowing over 20 /month. The flow won't even exist by that time myself or anyone hired today has that much time at PSA. Good for you guys who have been here that long. I have nothing but respect for your fortitude and perseverance. But the game is changing more rapidly than management seems willing to keep up with. You do know that one of our recruiters basically let it be known that we would retire the 200s on a one for one basis of we can't staff the incoming 7/900s. I fear that will become a reality as our staffing situation worsens. There are A LOT of frustrated pilots at PSA right now. I am only one of the more vocal ones.
 
TallFlyer said:
Well, that's what they're telling new hires at PDT and the APC Envoy crowd is saying the same thing about new hires there.

The fact of the matter is that PSA is having significantly high attrition already, perhaps 20/month. What management has apparently failed to realize is that the higher the flow number is, the lower outside attrition is going to be.
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Attrition hasn't gone over 10/month...yet. I sit in the top 35%, and this last month was the largest jump I made, 10 positions higher. 4 of those due to "flow" to AA. I understand that a few more junior folks are leaving, but we are not yet at 20/month. However, many of my fo's are not waiting, they are going for lcc's and even corporate. Surprisimg number that are interested in finding part 91/91k/135 gigs. Few of them can actually qualify for those, being a former corporate guy myself, knowing how that can go, not sure why they want that. We have a large group of jr fo's that are long in the tooth and won't move on because of their age, quick upgrade for them, as they come from brand X, etc; and our training department needs them.
 
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