PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

My issue with that chart is that it only takes into account attrition of 4 per month to the SSP. I dont work for any airline, so im just going off common sense here.

It doesnt consider people who; quit, are fired, loose their medicals permanently, retire fromPSA, bypass going to american, get hired by some other airline, get out of flying, die... etc..

I dont know if the data is available, but what is the current attrition level at PSA as a whole. Surely, they are not only loosing 4 people a month, being those 4 who go through the SSP.

I have to imagine that if everything is true about the street captains that were hired, many of them may be just biding their time until they get picked up somewhere else. As I understand, there seems to be a decent amount of attrition at the FO level as well. I dont think its possible to truly get a figure on "how many years till....." be that upgrade, or interview at American.
 
TheOneMarine said:
No. It's really not. The joke is PSA and AMR want to increase it from 4/month (as listed above) to 5/month with a bunch of other givebacks for that one extra. Then pat themselves on the back for their good job staffing.

Let me be clear, the last person to benefit from upgraded from additional planes is on property or close. If you come now not as a street captain, you're going to be an FO for a long time and NO ONE has been hired outside of their SSP order. Again, think hard.
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I'd say anyone hired for the rest of 2015 perhaps early 2016 will still see a relatively quick upgrade and movement. The SSP however IS NOT a reason to come to PSA. They don't seem willing to increase by much and the pilots aren't going to give up a single thing for an increase either.
 
Donnie Kahn said:
My issue with that chart is that it only takes into account attrition of 4 per month to the SSP. I dont work for any airline, so im just going off common sense here.

It doesnt consider people who; quit, are fired, loose their medicals permanently, retire fromPSA, bypass going to american, get hired by some other airline, get out of flying, die... etc..

I dont know if the data is available, but what is the current attrition level at PSA as a whole. Surely, they are not only loosing 4 people a month, being those 4 who go through the SSP.

I have to imagine that if everything is true about the street captains that were hired, many of them may be just biding their time until they get picked up somewhere else. As I understand, there seems to be a decent amount of attrition at the FO level as well. I dont think its possible to truly get a figure on "how many years till....." be that upgrade, or interview at American.
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I've moved up on average, about the 4/ month that are going to mainline. Once every two or so months a couple of people leave to other carriers, but it hasn't been more than that thus far. Granted I'm far up the list and maybe the more junior guys are leaving faster but it isn't by much.
 
TheOneMarine said:
I've moved up on average, about the 4/ month that are going to mainline. Once every two or so months a couple of people leave to other carriers, but it hasn't been more than that thus far. Granted I'm far up the list and maybe the more junior guys are leaving faster but it isn't by much.
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There has been a lot more FO attrition than CA attrition lately.
 
TheOneMarine said:
Sort of what I'm saying. Shaving numbers off the bottom doesn't help number 800 from it taking 15 years to flow. Which again, my issue is you broke 33% less likely to get to a legacy by coming here.
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I think they will renegotiate the SSP into a true flow in the future. But only time will tell. Most of the FOs I know don't particularly care what legacy they end up at or if they end up at a legacy at all. Opposed to many of the CAs that I talk to that are hoping to end up at AA. I think I just want to be somewhere other than a regional next time the music stops.
 
SSPs and flow agreements royally screw junior pilots out of going to their respective partner Legacy. You get constant movement which is good but you are not eligible to be a street hire at the partner legacy. You are effectively black listed. Flows suck for new hires overall.

American has A LOT of flows at this point so actually being a street hire in general is not easy unless you are military.
 
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Maurus said:
SSPs and flow agreements royally screw junior pilots out of going to their respective partner Legacy. You get constant movement which is good but you are not eligible to be a street hire at the partner legacy. You are effectively black listed.
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Not necessarily. I know several Eaglevoy pilots hired at AA outside of the flow.
 
I've moved up 98 spots since I started in February. I moved up about 25 spots in the past month and a half. Folks are moving on one way or another. I'm not too worried about only 4 a month on the SSP.

Plus, I always try to keep things in perspective. I live in America, and the average income for a family if four in America is something like $50k a year. If I get stuck here forever, I will make more than that easily, and in the grand scheme of things, it will be all right. I will still try to do what I can to make things better, but it's all relative.
 
Beefy McGee said:
I've moved up 98 spots since I started in February. I moved up about 25 spots in the past month and a half. Folks are moving on one way or another. I'm not too worried about only 4 a month on the SSP.

Plus, I always try to keep things in perspective. I live in America, and the average income for a family if four in America is something like $50k a year. If I get stuck here forever, I will make more than that easily, and in the grand scheme of things, it will be all right. I will still try to do what I can to make things better, but it's all relative.
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Around what number are you right now if I can ask? Also, I'm guessing you have no large desire to move on, much less to AMR, which I totally understand, different strokes for different folks, but them that puts you in a separate category from those of us that actuary wanted to go to AMR (Only legacy with a MIA base).
 
TheOneMarine said:
Around what number are you right now if I can ask? Also, I'm guessing you have no large desire to move on, much less to AMR, which I totally understand, different strokes for different folks, but them that puts you in a separate category from those of us that actuary wanted to go to AMR (Only legacy with a MIA base).
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I know Im being quite pedantic here but AMR hasnt existed for some time now.
 
Beefy McGee said:
I've moved up 98 spots since I started in February. I moved up about 25 spots in the past month and a half. Folks are moving on one way or another.
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You must be pretty far down the list. Took 2 years to move 110 spots for me. That movement slows down quite a bit the higher up the list you are.

While you and others may not mind 4 a month, many more want increases. PSA will need to step up with something better in order to keep people coming in the door, the quick upgrades will be coming to an end, and the flood of DEC's has started in earnest. Whether you are looking to stay or not, movement is good and will only benefit you down the road, be it by moving on, or better schedule, and better choices of vacations, etc. That 4 year cap on FO pay comes into play too. So there is a lot more to consider than just a chance to move on to American.
 
TheOneMarine said:
Around what number are you right now if I can ask? Also, I'm guessing you have no large desire to move on, much less to AMR, which I totally understand, different strokes for different folks, but them that puts you in a separate category from those of us that actuary wanted to go to AMR (Only legacy with a MIA base).
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Mid 900 range. With the expansion, I figure only about 100 more folks need to move on in order to have a fairly solid shot at upgrading within two years. By that time, if those 100 folks do move on, I should easily be in the top 800 or so that should be able to upgrade to captain.

It's not that I don't ultimately want to move on. It's that I have been to some crappy places in this world and recognize how much worse things could be. And there will be so many career options besides AMR. I am not going to hold myself to some rigid plan and lock myself into a situation where I can't reach the only goal I set, and then be miserable about it if it doesn't turn out. I'm not locking in to any particular city or company. Whatever seems good enough will do when the time comes. And if it doesn't, things where I am now are good enough I can live with it.
 
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desertdog71 said:
You must be pretty far down the list. Took 2 years to move 110 spots for me. That movement slows down quite a bit the higher up the list you are.

While you and others may not mind 4 a month, many more want increases.
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Such an increase can't happen. To get meaningful career progression from a flow you need a large chunk of the pilot group to leave each year. It is unsustainable to get the movement most pilots want from a flow. Flows are only there to sucker guys into signing a TA prior to growth. It has happened at PDT as well. The only people that will have meaningful movement are the people on property at the time of signing.
 
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desertdog71 said:
You must be pretty far down the list. Took 2 years to move 110 spots for me. That movement slows down quite a bit the higher up the list you are.

While you and others may not mind 4 a month, many more want increases. PSA will need to step up with something better in order to keep people coming in the door, the quick upgrades will be coming to an end, and the flood of DEC's has started in earnest. Whether you are looking to stay or not, movement is good and will only benefit you down the road, be it by moving on, or better schedule, and better choices of vacations, etc. That 4 year cap on FO pay comes into play too. So there is a lot more to consider than just a chance to move on to American.
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It's not that I don't want more than 4 a month. More is great. But there are other options/situations that folks are clearly finding or running into, whether jobs, retirement or medical stuff (sorry for those folks) that has led to the seniority movement of 15 or so a month I have seen so far. And I got in soon enough that there are going to be plenty enough folks behind me that I should have some "furlough insurance" if that ever happened. Things could be worse.
 
TheOneMarine said:
View attachment 32547

Here's the new thing going around PSA. Think long and hard before coming here and effectively killing your shot at 1/3 of the remaining legacies. We're up to 1300 on the list.
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ALPA make this? Also have they provided the recent pilots turned down by AAG a reason for being no hired? I tried asking APA about such but currently an uphill battle....
 
chrisreedrules said:
I'd say anyone hired for the rest of 2015 perhaps early 2016 will still see a relatively quick upgrade and movement. The SSP however IS NOT a reason to come to PSA. They don't seem willing to increase by much and the pilots aren't going to give up a single thing for an increase either.
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Dont really think its going to be as easy this time around. Looking like PSA is going to have to offer something Competitive with other regionals that have signed newer contracts and yes, as much as it is inferior to other AA regionals, is going to have to use an improved SSP to get people in the door. If they continue to keep it "as is" then whats going to get new hires in the door? Starting pay? Upgrade after everyone else that will be eligible in 2 years?
 
Dynasty22 said:
Dont really think its going to be as easy this time around. Looking like PSA is going to have to offer something Competitive with other regionals that have signed newer contracts and yes, as much as it is inferior to other AA regionals, is going to have to use an improved SSP to get people in the door. If they continue to keep it "as is" then whats going to get new hires in the door? Starting pay? Upgrade after everyone else that will be eligible in 2 years?
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I'm not disagreeing with you. I wonder what (if anything) they will begin offering new hires?
 
chrisreedrules said:
I'm not disagreeing with you. I wonder what (if anything) they will begin offering new hires?
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Until they are no longer overstaffed on FOs they will offer nothing. After that it may come down to AAG having to pony up some money like Delta has had to do with Endeavor.
 
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