PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

Soku39 said:
Well at literally every other airline the trip would disappear from your schedule, they would have to pay you for it, and you could pick up out of open time if you so chose. I'd rather have that than the "they probably won't use me" thing.
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Oh I would much rather get straight bought out, but however it's labeled, I'll take what I can get
 
mastermags said:
Maybe not, but many airlines do and this should be the standard that other airlines should be shooting for in negotiations.
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Well sure. And twinkies with every crew meal. And nobody has to work on Wednesdays.

Everything has a price tag (which adds up surprisingly quickly) and needs to be prioritized. Something that mostly only effects half the pilot group (FOs) might not rank as high as something that effects all of the pilot group (wages and work rules). It's great if you can get it, but when resources (money the company is willing to spend) are limited, you have to decide what makes the most sense.

Quick history of the PSA displacement language...

Prior to 2013 there was no displacement language. The company would, each month designate certain checkairman who's awarded lines (no PBS) would be blocked from FO bidding. There was no restriction on this number although there was some vague language about the checkairman flying having to be spread "evenly" between the domiciles. The problem was that, often times, checkairmen were senior and had the good schedules and as such FOs weren't allowed to get those schedules. There was one year where there were NO FO lines with Christmas Eve/Day off in one domicile because all 5 lines that had it went to checkairmen. Then, invariably, there wouldn't be enough new hires or upgrades who needed flying (line checks were normally done from the jumpseat) and reserves would have to come in and fly with the checkairman all the time.

Pilots (well, FOs) hated that they were blocked from bidding good lines and the company didn't like the fact they were constantly burning reserve FO to cover the flying. However, we discovered that, despite them not liking the reserve utilization, they didn't dislike it enough to throw any money at the problem. Margins at regionals, even WOs are pretty damn tight and instead of us using negotiating capital to solve a problem that only effected FOs (and not all FOs at that), we decided to save that money for pay rates (and a min day, which was the single biggest win after SAP in that contract) and make a somewhat cost neutral solution that solved the issues pilots were complaining about.

So, you can be displaced ONLY if they call you before noon the day prior to your report time. This solves the problem where a guy commutes in, is told he's displaced 30 minutes prior to starting and now has to pay for a hotel because he can't get back home that day.

If displaced you have to be reassigned flying at the time of displacement and it can't start earlier than your original show time. This way guys won't have to commute in any earlier than they were planning to. Likewise the trip can't exceed the original footprint or extension rules and pay apply.

If there is no trip they go to long call and are still protected by the original footprint of the trip.

Paid the greater of the trip they were displaced off of or what they fly.

So yes, a guy who is displaced doesn't get free days off, but they won't end up working any more or on any days they weren't planning on working already. They have the ability to make more (not double pay like some places do have, but at least the greater of). It's not perfect, but it was a huge improvement that cost almost no bargaining capital, which in negotiations, especially at the regional level, is a big win.
 
In the mean time, TSA is hiring 30-40 a month, paying thousands more then PSA as a new hire FO, hiring CQFO's again, and isn't struggling getting guys through training.
 
surreal1221 said:
Guess it won't matter since you've been around much longer and my opinion will be marginalized.

But, for the record, 7.5 yrs and went through the first, and thus far only, furlough at this establishment for 18 months.

Our definitions of dysfunctional are dependent on ones perspective. We just happened to have a different one.

Additionally, ones perspective is not limited to simply flights operating on time and pay checks clearing. Which, actually, do not occur flawlessly every month.

However, my question still stands: What sort of baggage are folks being hired with?
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Of course those are only aspects of running a functional airline. As for furlough, while it sucks, we were hardly the first airline to have one and I'm willing to bet we won't be the last. As it was I saw times in the past when we could have furloughed, but did not. In addition, while it's taken for granted today, we were among the first to hire furloughed FO's without requiring them to resign their seniority numbers elsewhere and to give preferential hiring to furloughed pilots.
Are the performance numbers the best? No, but they aren't the worst and they have gotten to where they are consistently among the best. Again, having seen really bad operations, such as no control over de-icing operations in ATL, ASA gate agents (probably the worst I have ever encountered), I have a different perspective of "dysfunctional" that is more in line with the dictionary definition: "not operating normally". Now if we were consistently last in every measured area I would agree, but we aren't. Is this to say it's the perfect airline? Of course not. But when people just complain about how everything sucks with no perspective on what "suck" really is they lose credibility.
As for people getting hired with baggage that precluded them from working in the past, I am not in HR so I don't know the specifics on every new hire, only what I hear from the training side. I do know of one good pilot, however, who was hired with a violation.
 
On the plus side
BobDDuck said:
Well sure. And twinkies with every crew meal. And nobody has to work on Wednesdays.

Everything has a price tag (which adds up surprisingly quickly) and needs to be prioritized. Something that mostly only effects half the pilot group (FOs) might not rank as high as something that effects all of the pilot group (wages and work rules). It's great if you can get it, but when resources (money the company is willing to spend) are limited, you have to decide what makes the most sense.

Quick history of the PSA displacement language...

Prior to 2013 there was no displacement language. The company would, each month designate certain checkairman who's awarded lines (no PBS) would be blocked from FO bidding. There was no restriction on this number although there was some vague language about the checkairman flying having to be spread "evenly" between the domiciles. The problem was that, often times, checkairmen were senior and had the good schedules and as such FOs weren't allowed to get those schedules. There was one year where there were NO FO lines with Christmas Eve/Day off in one domicile because all 5 lines that had it went to checkairmen. Then, invariably, there wouldn't be enough new hires or upgrades who needed flying (line checks were normally done from the jumpseat) and reserves would have to come in and fly with the checkairman all the time.

Pilots (well, FOs) hated that they were blocked from bidding good lines and the company didn't like the fact they were constantly burning reserve FO to cover the flying. However, we discovered that, despite them not liking the reserve utilization, they didn't dislike it enough to throw any money at the problem. Margins at regionals, even WOs are pretty damn tight and instead of us using negotiating capital to solve a problem that only effected FOs (and not all FOs at that), we decided to save that money for pay rates (and a min day, which was the single biggest win after SAP in that contract) and make a somewhat cost neutral solution that solved the issues pilots were complaining about.

So, you can be displaced ONLY if they call you before noon the day prior to your report time. This solves the problem where a guy commutes in, is told he's displaced 30 minutes prior to starting and now has to pay for a hotel because he can't get back home that day.

If displaced you have to be reassigned flying at the time of displacement and it can't start earlier than your original show time. This way guys won't have to commute in any earlier than they were planning to. Likewise the trip can't exceed the original footprint or extension rules and pay apply.

If there is no trip they go to long call and are still protected by the original footprint of the trip.

Paid the greater of the trip they were displaced off of or what they fly.

So yes, a guy who is displaced doesn't get free days off, but they won't end up working any more or on any days they weren't planning on working already. They have the ability to make more (not double pay like some places do have, but at least the greater of). It's not perfect, but it was a huge improvement that cost almost no bargaining capital, which in negotiations, especially at the regional level, is a big win.
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Was flying with an Aregentine that lives in Dayton last week, that I would assume you know, and that's exactly what he said, so fair enough.

Also hell yes at the August lines, finally some improvements.
 
Soku39 said:
On the plus side


Was flying with an Aregentine that lives in Dayton last week, that I would assume you know, and that's exactly what he said, so fair enough.

Also hell yes at the August lines, finally some improvements.
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I'm trying to remember who that might be but am drawing a blank.
 
Always get sharkskin. Tropical wears out much faster. Yes, it's a bit heavier for the pants but in the winter while doing your walk around in the HPN Charlie Pad at 4:45 in the morning, you'll be thankful for it.
 
I'm still holding SCR in August, but I got the 11AM slot so at least I can commute in morning of... Hopefully next month I can hold a build up.
 
tbstanto said:
There was an FO class that started about 2 weeks ago. The most recent class was 8 DEC's. The next class is supposedly FO's again.
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Any word on if thats a large class, or just a small class of FO's? Has there been much movement with the training program, or are people still off work for several months between training cycles.
 
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