Props rule

PCL_128 said:
This was a single arbitrator, and his ruling was not precedent-setting. The arbitrator in the PCL/CJC case ruled in favor of ALPA, and the arbitrator in the MAG/Freedumb case ruled in favor of ALPA. I'd say 2-for-3 is pretty good. But we'll never improve anything if you believe that it's all "theoretical."
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I'm not familiar with the Gojet/TSA case but I know that Pinnacle Holdings bought Colgan. The pilot contract was with scope with Pinnacle Holdings (if I remember correctly). Now imagine this - a new holding company is created and that company, different than pinnacle holdings, is used to buy Colgan. The out come would have been completely different.
 
wheelsup said:
I'm not familiar with the Gojet/TSA case
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Then you probably shouldn't be debating the issue.

The pilot contract was with scope with Pinnacle Holdings (if I remember correctly). Now imagine this - a new holding company is created and that company, different than pinnacle holdings, is used to buy Colgan. The out come would have been completely different.
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Of course, because it's a completely different situation that has nothing to do with this. Comparing apples to jet-skis, if you will. Why would the PCL pilots care if some completely separate company purchased Colgan?
 
jtrain609 said:
Puppies don't pay my bills!
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I love ya jtrain but neither does fighting on the internet ;)

It seems to me, and I am also incredibly new to the whole 121 world, but the best way to get the message to another person is to befriend them.

A hypothetical situation: Carrier X flies the same aircraft that Carrier Y flies but for $6 less an hour. Carrier Y pilot wishes Carrier X pilot could see how that is affecting him/her but discovers that the Carrier X pilot gets defensive really quick when he/she tries to lecture them. So instead Carrier Y pilot invites Carrier X pilot out to drinks, gets to know them and becomes friends. Now Carrier X pilot realizes that there was no condescension or talking down or lecturing intended by the other guy and is also emotionally invested. He thinks to himself -- wow, look at what we're doing and starts making self-assessments.


I know i'd prefer that!
 
Anyone on the sidelines of the conversation see my point about pulling out switchblades having a deleterious effect on communication? :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
Anyone on the sidelines of the conversation see my point about pulling out switchblades having a deleterious effect on communication? :)
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Again, that switchblade is effective when you get to the bargaining table. We don't negotiate online with the company, and that viatrol that is so ineffective here I think can be powerful when you are willing to do whatever it takes to get a better contract.
 
PCL_128 said:
Of course, because it's a completely different situation that has nothing to do with this. Comparing apples to jet-skis, if you will. Why would the PCL pilots care if some completely separate company purchased Colgan?
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Because their scope agreement is with Pinnacle Holdings, not XYZ Holdings. If some "completely separate company" with money funded by Pinnacle Holdings purchased Colgan the overriding Holding company could farm out the flying, or award additional, as needed.

In fact I am lucky my company hasn't done the same thing with their other holding company.
 
wheelsup said:
Because their scope agreement is with Pinnacle Holdings, not XYZ Holdings. If some "completely separate company" with money funded by Pinnacle Holdings purchased Colgan the overriding Holding company could farm out the flying, or award additional, as needed.
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What you're describing is illegal. If that was possible, Johnny O and Phildo would have done it years ago. A Holding Company can't take money that is owned by the shareholders and give it to another holding company to start up an alter-ego airline.
 
jtrain609 said:
Again, that switchblade is effective when you get to the bargaining table. We don't negotiate online with the company, and that viatrol that is so ineffective here I think can be powerful when you are willing to do whatever it takes to get a better contract.
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Oh yeah, you need a bowie knife at the bargaining table, don't get me wrong. Go loaded for bear.

But the back and forth "you suck, no YOU suck" on the internets...wait...lemme check just to be sure...nope... didn't put another dollar in my wallet or improve sick leave.

The "system" is the target, not our fellow professional aviators.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Anyone on the sidelines of the conversation see my point about pulling out switchblades having a deleterious effect on communication? :)
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I've been sucked in...it's so hard to resist.

PNL say what you want but the regionals will never be a place to have a career at. Too many people at my company thought that it was, and they received a rather rude awakening in 2005, even after taking a 15% paycut "for the team".

As pilots we have very little leverage at the regional level, and it seems less and less leverage at the major level.
 
"Again, that switchblade is effective when you get to the bargaining table."

Right, but you don't need it here.
 
wheelsup said:
PNL say what you want but the regionals will never be a place to have a career at. Too many people at my company thought that it was, and they received a rather rude awakening in 2005, even after taking a 15% paycut "for the team".

As pilots we have very little leverage at the regional level, and it seems less and less leverage at the major level.
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Keep up with that attitude. With the next downturn getting started, you could be stuck there at the regionals for quite a while. Better step up to the challenge instead of being mired in defeatism.
 
JDMcFly said:
"Again, that switchblade is effective when you get to the bargaining table."

Right, but you don't need it here.
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I'm telling you guys, the Airline Transport Association gleefully watches us infight amongst ourselves and retires to the bathroom with kleenex for an inordinate amount of time because this makes them cold, hard cash.

A good example. Doug Parker LOVES the east versus west morass. The more time they spend fighting, is the less time and cohesion they'll have at the bargaining table demanding better working conditions. Ya'll don't think Pinnacle AND Colgan management aren't sitting in the same room, drinking a scotch and laughing their asses off at some of the threads here? I can show you some of the domains that are browsing the site, it's entertaining.

Why do you think the CIA and the US Federal Government shipped crack and guns to the ghetto back in the... WHOOPS! Sorry guys, I almost slipped and had a Reverend Wright moment, whew! (I'm kidding people, relax, don't taz me bro).
 
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