Props rule

Doug Taylor said:
I thiiiiiiink you may have missed my point, Train, but that's alright! I'm a flyer and not a writer! ;)

More simply put, it seems like the average regional FO is far more likely to pull out out a proverbial switchblade on the internet than a lot of other people.
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Personally? I hope we're willing to bring that same switchblade to the table when our contracts come up.

Ain't nothin' wrong with being militant, angry mother####ers that will do whatever we have to do to get paid!
 
wheelsup said:
Personally I think it's because of immaturity more than anything else. You don't see 30 somethings bagging on others, mostly it's the under 20's to mid-20's crowd.

That, and with no money they don't have any hobbies or life, so complaining on the internet is the next best thing.
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I've got other hobbies, it's just that it's starting to melt and I haven't had the chance to go pickup a mountain bike yet :)
 
Still missing the point. The ONLY guys in the jumpseat I've ever heard complain about other companies lower pay have been FO's. It's pretty much the same on here.
 
wheelsup said:
Still missing the point. The ONLY guys in the jumpseat I've ever heard complain about other companies lower pay have been FO's. It's pretty much the same on here.
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I doubt that. Just had an American guy on the jumpseat out of STL a couple of weeks ago that was going off on Skybust and VA. It's not just the regional FOs, and I think that's a good thing.
 
Doug Taylor said:
PNCL-

Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand and appreciate the utility of being charged up and ready to improve things, but I think of it like a hot dog.

What's the difference between a delicious hot dog and a meat tube of ground up lips, bladders, snouts and eyeballs?

Marketing.

The problem that our industry is having is that we're engrossed in "my carrier is better than yours", "you suck", etc than we are trying to work together to find solutions to our professions problems.

When the pendulum swings from passionate education to caustic pissing matches, the people that most need to hear the underlying message completely tune out.
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To be frank, we've learned from the examples we had in the mainline ranks.

Look at the Airways and Amwest guys.

Look at what mainline pilots did with releasing 50 seat jets to the regionals.

Look at B scales.

Look at red tail vs. green tail.

Look at TWA vs. American pilots.

It's no different. We're just using the techniques the mainline pilots have developed on our own struggles.
 
wheelsup said:
Still missing the point. The ONLY guys in the jumpseat I've ever heard complain about other companies lower pay have been FO's. It's pretty much the same on here.
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Funny, my captains have complained about Colgan's rates on the Q400 just as much, if not more than me.

They don't care that we're losing the flying, they care that they're flying such huge airplanes for such low rates.
 
If I had a dime for every CA I've flown with at da Tranny who complained about the JB -190 rates, I could probably double my salary. Again, it's not just the regional FOs. They're just the most vocal on the internets.
 
jtrain609 said:
They don't care that we're losing the flying, they care that they're flying such huge airplanes for such low rates.
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Well XJT has a lot of mid twenty's CA's as well, so maturity could still be an issue.

If they don't care that they are losing the flying, then they should be happy they make MORE MONEY to fly a SMALLER PLANE. Instead they complain about others making less money?!? Obviously they also don't have anything better to do with their time.

I doubt Colgan has had any problems hiring street CA's into the Q. Plenty of people will jump on it, just like we had CA's leave here for Lynx to make less pay. If those are the new market rates, then so be it. Maybe if ALPA had a single contract for all ALPA carriers we would avoid this mess, but they don't.

Some companies pay more. Some pay less. A moron can see that going to a company that pays less has a competitive advantage over the ones that pay more. They make the decision to go based upon their goals and expectations. Again, as long as there are multiple contracts throughout the industry we won't ever solve anything at the regional level. Too much bidding and underbidding happens. Either realize this and go with the flow or leave and find a job where this doesn't impact you. What happened to ACA almost happened to AWAC. It also might happen to XJT.
 
My last two captains were 38 and 57, respectively.

But I guess they're complaining because they have nothing better to do...wait I thought they were kids...wait they're not...oh no what's happened here!
 
I perfectly understand pattern bargaining. Unfortunately its more theoretical at the regional level, when companies can be created and airplanes transferred over night. Reference TSA and Gojet, ruled to be two completely separate entities because they have different web sites.
 
wheelsup said:
I perfectly understand pattern bargaining. Unfortunately its more theoretical at the regional level, when companies can be created and airplanes transferred over night.
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Theoretical? With that attitude, the regionals will never get any better.

Reference TSA and Gojet, ruled to be two completely separate entities because they have different web sites.
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This was a single arbitrator, and his ruling was not precedent-setting. The arbitrator in the PCL/CJC case ruled in favor of ALPA, and the arbitrator in the MAG/Freedumb case ruled in favor of ALPA. I'd say 2-for-3 is pretty good. But we'll never improve anything if you believe that it's all "theoretical."
 
Todd you might have missed it, but this is the guy that recommended taking low pay and work rules at the regional level so you can move up as quickly as possible, and so you don't lose your flying a few years back.
 
Can't we all just get along? Here, lets all look at this picture of a puppy together.
289261228_3824a50d9d.jpg


Awwww...



Doesn't that feel better?
 
PCL_128 said:
Ahh, thanks for the heads up, train. I wasn't posting here back then, so I missed it.
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Kinda like you did by going to pinnacle?

I don't know what jtrain is referring to, I had a choice of employers and I chose one that I could sit it out for awhile, with higher average pay than other similar companies.
 
Bro you were the one recommending people go to places like Mesa, Lakes and Colgan because the work rules and pay rates sucked, but the upgrade was fast and it would get you out of the regionals as quickly as possible.
 
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