Professionalism across the industry

mtsu_av8er said:
Doesn't Grandma Miller deserve to feel warm and fuzzy? After all, she is the paying passenger.

Nobody is saying that a uniform will make a pilot FLY better. It makes him/her LOOK better, and that's exactly what it's purpose is. To make you look professional. A professional image is an incredibly large part of professionalism.

Why does the militart wear uniforms? Aside from tactical uniforms (cammies, etc), there is no practical purpose. However, would the world's Finest at the Marine Barracks at 8th & I be as impressive if they were all wearing golf shirts and jeans? I think not. There would definately not be a line down the block to watch them.

Now, once you LOOK professional, you'll have no choice but to act professional. It's just the way it works.

As one of my Heroes, GySgt Tom C. Highway said, "When you start looking like Marines, you'll start looking like Marines. Then [Expletive Deleted . . . :)] you'll start feeling like Marines!"

I think that this applies in more than just the military.



Exactly!!

BTW, with a few exceptions, you'll probably notice that most of the uniform haters are young and newly out of Mama's house. ;)
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Nice post mtsu_av8er. I think a pilot uniform looks very professional and clean, I would take pride in wearing one.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Doesn't Grandma Miller deserve to feel warm and fuzzy? After all, she is the paying passenger.

You left out the rest of my post, but if it makes you feel better, that's ok...

Nobody is saying that a uniform will make a pilot FLY better. It makes him/her LOOK better, and that's exactly what it's purpose is. To make you look professional. A professional image is an incredibly large part of professionalism.

You can look professional, without wearing a costume.

Why does the military wear uniforms? Aside from tactical uniforms (cammies, etc), there is no practical purpose. However, would the world's Finest at the Marine Barracks at 8th & I be as impressive if they were all wearing golf shirts and jeans? I think not. There would definately not be a line down the block to watch them.

That is a little low, comparing pilots with the men and woman of the armed forces, these people do a job that deserves a uniform, something that is worn with pride. A captain that looks like a lollipop upside down with 4 stripes is not pride. I had a former military type ask me if the three stripes meant I was a commander, I said nope a First Officer, he looked at my funny and asked, then why do you wear stripes????

Now, once you LOOK professional, you'll have no choice but to act professional. It's just the way it works.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way, some of the most unprofessional people I have ever dealt with or flew with, were dressed to the hilt. Being a professional has nothing to do with how you look, that is perception, being professional means doing what is required of you, taking pride in your JOB, and constantly improving yourself. Their may be things I don't like to do (wear a monkey suit, shave everyday so I look nice for the boxes, etc) but I do them, because I take pride in what I do.

As one of my Heroes, GySgt Tom C. Highway said, "When you start looking like Marines, you'll start looking like Marines. Then [Expletive Deleted . . . :)] you'll start feeling like Marines!"

I think that this applies in more than just the military.


Exactly!!

BTW, with a few exceptions, you'll probably notice that most of the uniform haters are young and newly out of Mama's house. ;)

Thats funny, who do you fly for?
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You bring up good points, but you are acting like most people, apperance to you, is everything, when it actually accounts for nothing, hence being able to take off the tie and wear a ball cap once the flight deck door is closed.
 
Dugie8 said:
You bring up good points, but you are acting like most people, apperance to you, is everything . . .
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Ahhh, but you hit the nail on the head. Although we all know (and I said in my post) that appearance doesn't really change the way you fly, it is EVERYTHING to many people. So, we play their game and put on a good show. In the end, they sleep better at night. We gave them what they wanted.

Dugie8 said:
Thats funny, who do you fly for?
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I'm confused as to why that matters . . .
 
You can argue all you want, but it's basic human psychology, captured well in the book "Dress for Success". What you wear not only has a large impact on how others perceive you, but it literally changes the way you perceive yourself and how you behave. There have been numerous studies on this topic.

It is funny, these arguments about how nobody should care what you look like. They were made by kids in the 20s, 30s, etc. Hippies said it, Punks said it, etc. In the end, those groups ALL had their own dress code you had to adhere to in order to be accepted, and it is still true today of the similar "groups".

In the end, they all end up wearing coats and ties (or female equiv) and expect others to do the same (blue collar and artsy types, etc excepted).

You'll learn!
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I'm confused as to why that matters . . .
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Well the consensus on JC seems to be "Don't talk about it unless you actually do it", so it's only fair Lloyd :p Didn't you read the definitive guide to arguing on JC? :D
 
Chris_Ford said:
Well the consensus on JC seems to be "Don't talk about it unless you actually do it", so it's only fair Lloyd :p Didn't you read the definitive guide to arguing on JC? :D
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I'm still confused as to why my company matters in the discussion?

I've worn a uniform more in my life than most of the people on JC will ever imagine, so I think I know a little bit about them, and why they're needed. ;)

As for me wearing a uniform at work, my company doesn't require them. If they did, I'd wear it proudly and I wouldn't be sniveling like my daughter . . . ;)
 
I know I feel like David Hasselhoff the pilot when I head out the door...
Wouldnt you, if you looked like this ! <------------
 
Some people mentioned elluded to how uniforms tend to look bad and unprofessional on people who are not physically fit. So true... no matter what the uniform is, no matter how nice or professional it looks, if the person wearing is grossly out of shape it will look bad. Someone also mentioned military style flight suits... funny because at flight school in Ft Rucker the instructors are mostly civilian guys working for LSI. Many are VERY fat and have to cram themselves into one-piece flight suits. Talk about not flattering.

So in closing, I am for a one hour physical training session for all airline pilots, meaning you will have to bump your report times up an hour earlier and increase your duty days by one hour. Small price to pay for looking good, I say. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

And actually, honest question: with the hours you airline guys pull, when DO you have time to exercise? Or do you at all?
 
I am a huge proponent of a well-tailored, clean, pressed and organized uniform. I take some time to ensure my uniform is cleaned often, ironed daily, starched, with all my insignia properly aligned and my shoes shined. It doesn't take very much effort to do this at all. Thing is, from the start being a pimply 22-year old pilot, I had to make an extra effort in my mind to calm the passengers, so they didn't see their pilot as this immature, unkept, inexperience pilot taking them through the storms and snows of the Midwest. I still hold this true today.

Fact is, you will be judged by your appearances for the rest of your life. Plain and simple. Should you be judged by more than that? Of course. But you'll find that as you walk up to the gate for your flight, every passenger in that waiting area is looking you over to see who they have drawn for a pilot today. If they see a young kid with long hair, baggy pants and an Ipod, they won't be too thrilled or comfortable. If they see someone who carries themselves well, with good posture and a kept uniform, then that says something. Think of the movies of the 50's, with the John Waynes and Clark Gables. We are well-removed from the 50's, but yet somehow the image of pilot in peoples minds have never changed.

As pilots, you are held to a different standard than everyone else. You can have some individuality while following the rules and standards that this profession requires. But this job requires many sacrifices. If you want a goatee, tattoos, long hair with bushy sideburns and a few piercings, then I'd reconsider this career. Plain and simple. This is a paramilitary career field, and hence airline pilots are expected to hold true to the same standards.

If you want my true personal opinion on it, I'd rather model myself and my career after the pilots of yesterday and the men who portrayed them on screen in the 50's. It is much closer to being a true man than modeling myself after the Nick whoevers (Jessica's ex husband) or Justin Timberlakes we have around today. At least back then men were men, with strong nerves, who had an intense gentlemanly air about them when things were amis, rather than the spoiled brat tantrums we find today.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I want an eye patch so I can say "Gear down.... HAAAAAR!" Or when we have DOS (destination on screen) on the nav display, "Land HO!"
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Wouldn't that be considered air piracy if a pirate was flying?

Atleast you could sing this cool song
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
We pillage, we plunder, we rifle, and loot,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot,
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
We extort, we pilfer, we filch, and sack,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
Maraud and embezzle, and even high-jack,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
We kindle and char, inflame and ignite,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
We burn up the city, we're really a fright,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.

We're rascals, scoundrels, villans, and knaves,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
We're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs,
Drink up, me 'earties, yo ho.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I am a huge proponent of a well-tailored, clean, pressed and organized uniform. I take some time to ensure my uniform is cleaned often, ironed daily, starched, with all my insignia properly aligned and my shoes shined. It doesn't take very much effort to do this at all. Thing is, from the start being a pimply 22-year old pilot, I had to make an extra effort in my mind to calm the passengers, so they didn't see their pilot as this immature, unkept, inexperience pilot taking them through the storms and snows of the Midwest. I still hold this true today.

Fact is, you will be judged by your appearances for the rest of your life. Plain and simple. Should you be judged by more than that? Of course. But you'll find that as you walk up to the gate for your flight, every passenger in that waiting area is looking you over to see who they have drawn for a pilot today. If they see a young kid with long hair, baggy pants and an Ipod, they won't be too thrilled or comfortable. If they see someone who carries themselves well, with good posture and a kept uniform, then that says something. Think of the movies of the 50's, with the John Waynes and Clark Gables. We are well-removed from the 50's, but yet somehow the image of pilot in peoples minds have never changed.

As pilots, you are held to a different standard than everyone else. You can have some individuality while following the rules and standards that this profession requires. But this job requires many sacrifices. If you want a goatee, tattoos, long hair with bushy sideburns and a few piercings, then I'd reconsider this career. Plain and simple. This is a paramilitary career field, and hence airline pilots are expected to hold true to the same standards.

If you want my true personal opinion on it, I'd rather model myself and my career after the pilots of yesterday and the men who portrayed them on screen in the 50's. It is much closer to being a true man than modeling myself after the Nick whoevers (Jessica's ex husband) or Justin Timberlakes we have around today. At least back then men were men, with strong nerves, who had an intense gentlemanly air about them when things were amis, rather than the spoiled brat tantrums we find today.
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Very well said.
 
ChinookDriver said:
How so?
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The uniforms, structure, command, etc. were originally based off the military, due to the high percentage of ex-military pilots who flew for the original airlines back after WWII and beyond.
 
Regardless of how well a pilot behaves, with a clean pressed uniform, the bashing of a Gulfstream pilot will never end. Whether it's a simple quick comment about the 30k he paid, or the smack being a 20th passenger.

:)
 
par·a·mil·i·tar·y;
adj. Of, relating to, or being a group of civilians organized in a military fashion, especially to operate in place of or assist regular army troops.

Which is what FlyChicaga said.
 
Except for the uniforms with "rank" on them, I just never thought of them as paramilitary.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I want an eye patch so I can say "Gear down.... HAAAAAR!" Or when we have DOS (destination on screen) on the nav display, "Land HO!"
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What do a pimp and Pirate have in Common?

They both say Yo Ho!
 
Its tough to get a real answer on the main question and Unless youve been around the industry for 20 years almost impossible. Even if you are one of the ones who been around awhile its hard not to look back in fondness of the times that once were. Well back when I was ....that would have never happened....Back when I was in school......Things like that just didnt happen....Back when i went to school I had to walk 2 miles to get to the bus stop....You get the picture.
 
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