Professionalism across the industry

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
I heard an interesting perspective last night about professionalism across the industry and how it is generally rising, not falling.

The pilot I was talking to said he thought professionalism was improving because companies are caring more and more about how their pilots act when out of uniform, the training is better, and operations are just more standardized and structured in general. Having a hotshot, cowboy attitude is unacceptable at any level nowadays, compared to years ago when it was almost expected of some pilots.

I had never heard any pilot bring up those ideas before. I'd only heard about professionalism on the decline because of immature, low-time FOs in regional jets and pilots dressing sloppy because they think they aren't paid enough.

What do you think? I hope this doesn't turn into a gripefest about the industry. I honestly want to hear if you think pilots, as a whole, are more or less professional than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago.
 
The chief pilot at my school demands all his students wear a collared shirt, and that they don't wear sandals. He also forbids males from wearing visible body jewlery. In short, he demands professionalism from kids who maybe haven't had that imposed on them before, and right from the primary level. I'd say professionalism is a learned trait, and the earlier it is taught the better.
 
ChinookDriver said:
The chief pilot at my school demands all his students wear a collared shirt, and that they don't wear sandals. He also forbids males from wearing visible body jewlery. In short, he demands professionalism from kids who maybe haven't had that imposed on them before, and right from the primary level. I'd say professionalism is a learned trait, and the earlier it is taught the better.
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what kind of school is this, an academy or just kinda an FBO? If its not all people planning on flying professionaly, then I think its a pretty crappy way to treat your customers.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
what kind of school is this, an academy or just kinda an FBO? If its not all people planning on flying professionaly, then I think its a pretty crappy way to treat your customers.
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It's a part 61/141 flightschool.

Well, I'll say this. He's old. Really old. Fought in WWII old. And the only people he really has to enforce this on is kids. Other flight instructors there (like me) don't really enforce those standards. If a weekend flyer wants to fly in a t-shirt and a nose ring, I don't care, and neither do the other instructors. But what he does great is instill a strong sense of aviation professionalism into new, young pilots.
 
jrh said:
I had never heard any pilot bring up those ideas before. I'd only heard about professionalism on the decline because of immature, low-time FOs in regional jets and pilots dressing sloppy because they think they aren't paid enough.
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In my very short time around aviation (8 years), I've noticed that there are two different groups of pilots. The first group understands the power of a professional appearance and how to posture themselves. The second group appears lazy, sloppy, and generally unprofessional, all because of how they dress and act. I believe from my own personal observation that the first group of pilots in some sectors of the industry are more likely to leave. Why? The mindset of having a confident posture allows you to more easily move to somewhere else where people appreciate that and pay for it. So from that stand point, professionalism at the airline level might be decreasing. The airlines will always have pilots willing to fly for them but the real question is, does the American public want their pizza delivery guy as the captain?

A disclaimer on this: I'm only 22 with part 91 corporate background. It seems to me that all the "pretty pilots" are the ones with corporate jobs in California. That's the bias behind the two groups. Maybe that bias just comes from my Californian shallow drive to look good and judge other peoples looks, but its still something I've noticed.
 
ChinookDriver said:
It's a part 61/141 flightschool.

Well, I'll say this. He's old. Really old. Fought in WWII old. And the only people he really has to enforce this on is kids. Other flight instructors there (like me) don't really enforce those standards. If a weekend flyer wants to fly in a t-shirt and a nose ring, I don't care, and neither do the other instructors. But what he does great is instill a strong sense of aviation professionalism into new, young pilots.
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You teaching out of Bill Laws (RIP) old school at ROC?
 
Champcar said:
Cool , I had my first flights there years ago
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Awesome... I run into SO MANY people who know Bill Law. That guy was a legend.

I like the school though... the new owner is really cool (especially compared to how owners/ management sounds at someplaces posted by JCers). You ever fly with John D?
 
jrh said:
Having a hotshot, cowboy attitude is unacceptable at any level nowadays, compared to years ago when it was almost expected of some pilots.
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I agree, completely unacceptable, however there are still pilots out there that fit right into that attitude. 350+ kts under 10,000 ft for example...is a problem and unacceptable.
 
FlyOrDie said:
A disclaimer on this: I'm only 22 with part 91 corporate background. It seems to me that all the "pretty pilots" are the ones with corporate jobs in California.
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I've seen some captains in TUS & PHX terminals that some would consider quite shabby. Neck curls, untrimmed mustaches, and pants 4 inches too long.

Now I'm not one to judge by appearances, I'd much rather wear my hair long. I've met some incredibly professional and personable individuals that wore nothing but jeans & pony tails. (men & women) It's a good start, but forcing students to wear collars isn't going to teach them a thing about professionalism. Give them responsibility, have them deal with the maintenance section chief and dispatchers. Ask for a brief report from a community leader about something aviation. Professionalism grows from inside, and the clothes stem from professionalism learned. In my 9 years of private school, the uniform NEVER taught us anything about professionalism.
 
I've never understood why people didn't get this. People don't take me seriously in the FBO's cause im generally in flip-flops and bluejeans. However its mostly odd hours and I'm not looking to meet potential employers because Im not looking to go anywhere. If I was I would definatly dress better. Whether you like it or not how you look has just as much influence on your interviewer and passengers as any qualifications you might have.

It also, for most people, has a direct effect on attitude. Piercings,ragged clothes, etc... allow you to act differently then you would wearing your sunday best.
 
So....to get back to the original question...are pilots (as a whole...airline/charter/corporate/freight/etc.) more professional or less professional today compared to twenty years ago?
 
I do think we've veered away from the "CRM's for wussboys" cowboy types, but they've been replaced with guys with the Revos-on-spiked hair, Vince-Vaughn-sideburned, blinkey-wheeled suitcase, "d00d we were flying .84 SWEET!" hotshots! :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
I do think we've veered away from the "CRM's for wussboys" cowboy types, but they've been replaced with guys with the Revos-on-spiked hair, Vince-Vaughn-sideburned, blinkey-wheeled suitcase, "d00d we were flying .84 SWEET!" hotshots! :)
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Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing. But we got one little budge on those Russkies. At this height why they might harpoon us, but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar screen!
 
Personnaly, I think the whole uniform thing is ridiculous. It serves no practical purpose, other than to make grandma miller feel warm and fuzzy. That being said, mine is pressed and clean as best I can with the schedule I keep on the road.

I think all the stickers and busted looking flight bags are just as bad as the Ipods, backpacks, sunglasses, (insert other 22 year old habbit here). Couple that with the guys/gals that actual need someone tempting them into the cockpit with a gallon Haugendaus.

The blame for "un-professionalism" lies sqaurely on everyone's shoulders, not just the current whipping boys/gals.
 
What does everyone think about radically changing pilot's uniforms? Something similar to what the military wears maybe, like a civillian version of their flight suit that still looks professional?

It seems like the airline pilot's uniform has always been the same, and changes very little between all the carriers out there.

I think Alaska's and Horizon's looks sharp with the leather jackets... I have heard people make fun of them for that though?
 
Some of the leather jackets look good, some of them look like the gay cop from the Village People, but it really just depends on the jacket/hat/pilot combination.

Just like the double-breasted jacket we wear. If you're tall and thin, it looks good, but if you're short and squat like me, it looks a compressed toy soldier.
 
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