PPL failures nearly 50%

Not sure who this form guys is, but if the tldr is to bring nose art back. Im game!
Also, 50% I do find hard to believe. That seems abysmally low. Do CFIs just not care that much?
 
Boots2Wings said:
Not sure who this form guys is, but if the tldr is to bring nose art back. Im game!
Also, 50% I do find hard to believe. That seems abysmally low. Do CFIs just not care that much?
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It's not just CFIs, amigo. Few seem to care anymore 'bout much of anything.

But like Jesus said, "Forgive them. They know not what they do."

I'll add, they know not what they don't do. And they know not what they know not.

Civilization itself is standing at the edge of an abyss of context. Knowing ANYTHING is always predicated on knowing SOMETHING. Which is why the smartest day of anyone's life is the day he/she/it is born. (how's THAT for pronouns?)
 
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form810 said:
It's not just CFIs amigo. Few seem to care anymore 'bout much of anything.

But like Jesus said, "Forgive them. They know not what they do." I'll add, they no not what they don't do. And they know not what they know not.
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If they get a sign off in that state, seems a might abysmal mentor/cfi. Hardest part of my job has always been telling them “no, your not ready and I wont do your career or family that disservice”….91, 135 the script hasnt changed….but its more than a personal record…I like to sleep at night haha
 
Derg said:
Blah blah blah, I need to know more about this! Can you throw in a mid-90’s Elizabeth Hurley too?
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It can be anyone you want! Currently mine would be Ilfenesh Hadera (The Godfather of Harlem). If you want Liz Hurley - you can pick that. That's the beauty of my plan - a real doll you can specify!
 
Boots2Wings said:
If they get a sign off in that state, seems a might abysmal mentor/cfi. Hardest part of my job has always been telling them “no, your not ready and I wont do your career or family that disservice”….91, 135 the script hasnt changed….but its more than a personal record…I like to sleep at night haha
Click to expand...
State?? Meh, Aviation is Federally regulated. ;)

To your point, the problem is again contextual. Which quickly becomes a dismal and vicious cycle. Blind leading blind and whatnot... Stupider we get, the stooopider we git.
 
tcco94 said:
My Chinese experience wasn’t horrible and I had some good pilots. But blew away their American counterparts? Yeah that’s a big stretch of a statement. The cultural differences and leadership differences were much more important than the language barrier. Language they can learn. Their entire culture and way they are raised is not something you or I can change. Not saying they are all bad pilots, they’re not. But saying the blew away American counterparts sure is a bold statement. One I disagree with 100%.
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I’m curious what the cultural differences are that you’re talking about because it wasn’t my experience at all. The only thing I can think of is the culture of cheating to get ahead, which is definitely very real in those places but I didn’t really experience that, not even really sure how one would cheat at flight training.

The real negative cultural baggage I would see was how rigidly they would study the material, to a fault. To the point of only being able to analyze prescribed scenarios (perfectly of course) but not able to respond to dynamic situations and think on their feet. Solo XC endorsements could be scary because of that.

And circling back to my original point, we can go back and forth and Im sure there are endless anecdotes to support either view, but my question is whether the evidence supports these students failing PPL checkrides at a statistically higher rate. I dont think it does.
 
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GypsyPilot said:
As far as students with flight sim experience, I found that to be a double edged sword as a CFI. Great for the IFR rating, often times terrible and riddled with bad habits for the PPL.
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Totally, and I made that clear to them. Really just meant in terms of messing around with the avionics.

Over Thanksgiving I was actually playing around with my Nephew’s MSFS setup he has and was pretty blown away. The G1000NXi is stunningly accurate, found myself up at 2 AM shooting approaches to minimums in Alaska. And that was just on an Xbox.
 
schloopy said:
I’m curious what the cultural differences are that you’re talking about because it wasn’t my experience at all. The only thing I can think of is the culture of cheating to get ahead, which is definitely very real in those places but I didn’t really experience that, not even really sure how one would cheat at flight training.

The real negative cultural baggage I would see was how rigidly they would study the material, to a fault. To the point of only being able to analyze prescribed scenarios (perfectly of course) but not able to respond to dynamic situations and think on their feet. Solo XC endorsements could be scary because of that.

And circling back to my original point, we can go back and forth and Im sure there are endless anecdotes to support either view, but my question is whether the evidence supports these students failing PPL checkrides at a statistically higher rate. I dont think it does.
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What cultural differences? Did we teach the same students? Because everyone here knows what I meant by cultural differences with leadership that many Chinese experience growing up. Again, not that this makes them bad pilots but they are not taught from an early age as we are in the States. And that’s difficult to try and teach them to put their superior aside and be the leader in the cockpit so I can solo them in just a few weeks (for example). It also didn’t get better with many of them. From day 1 of instructing at my school, we had entire week of indoc about how to teach and get across these barriers since we were pretty much teaching only Chinese.

Maybe you taught Chinese Americans. I don’t know, but my point was to your comment that the Chinese blew the American pilots out of the water. I have never seen that in my experience and I taught at a school with over 400+ Chinese students. Practically all of my Dual Given is with Chinese.
 
tcco94 said:
Chinese experience growing up. Again, not that this makes them bad pilots but they are not taught from an early age as we are in the States. And that’s difficult to try and teach them to put their superior aside and be the leader in the cockpit
Click to expand...

What does that mean?
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
What does that mean?
Click to expand...

I believe he is alluding to the fact that their culture makes it extremely complicated and almost impossible for a junior (FO) to question their seniors (CPT). Not nearly as xenophobic as it sounds, and is well scientifically documented in aviation.

Rather than teach a student good CRM principles, which include subordinates speaking up and acting when necessary, you also have to de-train a deeply engrained and primacy level of subordination. Teaching CRM = not terribly difficult. Breaking a primary cultural habit = very hard.
 
It’s not xenophobic at all. To some people it’s like we can’t have these discussions because people are afraid of how they will sound. Simply put… teaching a Chinese student is much different. We have different cultures and different upbringings. I’m not saying theirs is wrong, but in this industry it absolutely is another element and barrier for a CFI to deal with. Understanding that and respecting that will only be easier for you and your student. I had some great pilots and all of my students are airline pilots back home. It’s not like it’s scary proposition teaching Chinese students, but it will require more patience and work on your part for some of your students.

Which could be the same in America dealing with students who have different obstacles.All part of the CFI game.
 
schloopy said:
Totally, and I made that clear to them. Really just meant in terms of messing around with the avionics.

Over Thanksgiving I was actually playing around with my Nephew’s MSFS setup he has and was pretty blown away. The G1000NXi is stunningly accurate, found myself up at 2 AM shooting approaches to minimums in Alaska. And that was just on an Xbox.
Click to expand...

Wait, there is MSFS on xbox?
 
Yakob said:
I don't think there's any risk of him flying right seat for anyone any time soon.

Also, a trigenarian as an example of "kids these days"...LOL.
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4 of the ones I fired from 2020-2022 are currently at the regionals.

one guy decided he was going to fly the 172 with the fuel selector valve in each position for 30 mins. After I instructed him not to do that he kept doing it then was dumb enough to tell me the fuel lines are blocked because one side feeds unequally. The real story is his parents bought him a Piper so he likes to fly every plane like he flies his own. Never mind the fact that someone’s going to get in that plane, not read the checklist, not check the fuel prior to taking off, run out of fuel and end up dead or wrecking one of my birds.

another guy decided it was cool to try and have sex with a female student when I expressly told the CFIs they can’t date students. It causes drama and we lose students. If you want to find a girl, go to any bar and wear a t shirt that says you’re a pilot. I’m sure something is desperate enough to bite. After he does the deed, I get a call from the female student at 6am on a Sunday crying and screaming that the CFI took advantage of her while she was drunk and had sex with her against her will. I’ve never wanted to punch someone so hard. Booted him immediately.

another guy decided to skip a preflight inspection during his demo flight and hop in. He failed to notice the cowling unfastened completely where 2 cylinders were not installed. He watched me remove the cylinders all day, take the keys offline, text the group not to fly it. After he somehow manages to start it, he doesn’t notice the plane violently shaking. he runs the engine at 800 rpm while getting the ATIS and clearance then powers to taxi only to have our chief run out and stop him. One week prior he ripped the flap off a 172 while doing emergency descents and “didn’t notice” until the next student and CFI showed up and preflight. He denied it till the end. Wouldn’t fess up.

I’ve got story after story of pure stupidity and laziness. These guys are all at the regionals now. Nothing I can do to stop them. They don’t do pria records for schools. I get pria requests from their regionals when they are hired but it doesn’t allow me to make comments or ask if they have done anything bad. The questions are specific because the law forbids them to ask any other questions. This is how people end up dead when a 767 gets planted into the ground in Houston. These guys need to be tracked from day 1.
 
///AMG said:
Wait, there is MSFS on xbox?
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Yes sir! It's pretty awesome to putt around in a cub low level or buzz the tower in a F18. Graphics are amazing. Other then that though its kinda hard to do much else with the xbox controller. You'd probably want to get a joystick/yoke to fly approaches... if you're into that sort of thing.
 
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