Possible Everglades crash

My Parents were friends with the student of the piper...he had left his family in the Aspen area to learn to fly multi-engine aircraft....he owned several coffee shops in the area and used to "commute" to his shop in Boulder via plane. He leaves a wife and two young children. RIP
 
The CFI in the seminole was 21. Son of a guy that my dad has flown with for over 30 years. My deepest condolences to all involved.
 
Man what a small world...you guys flying that plane/knowing those involved.

Sucks when the law of averages falls upon you...:(
 
This is absolutely my biggest fear when it comes to flying. I've had some close calls already and I don't have very many hours. I'm strongly considering buying a TCAS system of some sort but even then that may not be enough. How can we prevent these kinds of accidents? Obviously you need to be vigilant in scanning for traffic, but it doesn't seem like that is enough. This is a terribly sad accident. It makes me sick, and to be honest a little scared/worried/nervous...
 
juxtapilot said:
This is absolutely my biggest fear when it comes to flying. I've had some close calls already and I don't have very many hours. I'm strongly considering buying a TCAS system of some sort but even then that may not be enough. How can we prevent these kinds of accidents? Obviously you need to be vigilant in scanning for traffic, but it doesn't seem like that is enough. This is a terribly sad accident. It makes me sick, and to be honest a little scared/worried/nervous...
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PCAS system at sporty's $539...I am beginning to think that this might be a VERY affordable safety item and it runs on 2 AA batteries. It's not perfect since it depends on everyone having their transponders on, but i would assume that most places like Florida have large areas that require transponder use anyway.

This event makes me think that perhaps a very important question to ask before renting/using an airplane is: "is this equipped with a TCAS system, and if not, do you have another plane that is equipped?"

Recently, while doing a lesson in New Hampshire, we got flight following and alerts from Boston approach, again not perfect, but another level of safety.

IMHO, there is no excuse for not activiating the TCAS in a plane if it equipped with that system. NO, it doesnt take the place of having good eyes and a swivel-head, but it's another level of safety, and who would argue with that?

...just some thoughts as i digest this 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon event for myself
 
It is sad, but not suprising, that today we still experience a high number of mid-air collisions under VFR. Too many new pilots do not observe radio discipline, the controllers and TRANCON have their hands full with other higher priority traffic, and the increased traffic in student practice areas has increased to uncontrollable levels throughout the years, even after the 9-11 restrictions went into effect.

Pilots must continue to scan their areas for traffic. They must learn and practice radio discipline, and they need to learn to work together and be courtious to others in the area. Although the official report and details have not been released there is a common thread to all mid-air collisions, a distraction in the cockpit and human error. I pry these types of accidents can be avoided because eventually we will have another PSA 182 or Aeromexico disaster.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the pilots and passengers of the two planes that collided. My you be comforted in your time of loss.
 
BCTAv8r said:
Does it cost THAT much more to have the traffic advisory feature on the GPS enabled? It seems like every school down here that I fly with has it disabled.
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its not a matter of just "enabling" an option in the GPS, you need a source of traffic information. The plane would need a TIS (Mode S transponder), PCAS, TCAS or ADS-B installed as a source of traffic information, which you could then "enable" to be displayed on your GPS or MFD.
 
Looking at the sectional map around KFLL, I dont see many places where one would not have a mode-c transponder on since almost every airport is class D or Class C...and then there's Miami int'l with it's 30 mile mode c veil.

Can anyone please explain the logic behind taking off from any airport in the area and then turning off their mode c transponder...only to have to turn it back on when trying to land?!?! 'Cause if you cant, then I would see no reason for ANY flight school not to turn on their TCAS, PCAS etc. on their planes for safety. There's even a WARNING on the sectional just west of Hollywood, FLA about "concentrated flight training" for cripes sake!
 
ozone said:
There's even a WARNING on the sectional just west of Hollywood, FLA about "concentrated flight training" for cripes sake!
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Don't forget about Alert Area A291A just north of there which is also for concentrated flight training. That's commonly referred to as the Coral Springs practice area. Everyone from LNA, BCT, PMP, and FXE can be found out there.

A291B, which is the alert area you are talking about, is too far south for all the airports I mentioned above to go to. That's the same practice area where the twin comanche going into PMP descended right into the 150 from LNA. That was a double fatal.

I'm telling you, it's crazy down here.
 
FiveO said:
Don't forget about Alert Area A291A just north of there which is also for concentrated flight training. That's commonly referred to as the Coral Springs practice area. Everyone from LNA, BCT, PMP, and FXE can be found out there.

A291B, which is the alert area you are talking about, is too far south for all the airports I mentioned above to go to. That's the same practice area where the twin comanche going into PMP descended right into the 150 from LNA. That was a double fatal.

I'm telling you, it's crazy down here.
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If I remember correctly, in the midair last December, the Piper was IFR, and descended (with several traffic advisories from ATC) right into the VFR 150...a stinging reminder that even if you're IFR or VFR with F.F. flying through the practice areas requires you to be on your toes.

On a side note, ATC flew me right over the TFR at the crash site Monday. Not a fun way to start a flight.
 
juxtapilot said:
This is absolutely my biggest fear when it comes to flying. I've had some close calls already and I don't have very many hours. I'm strongly considering buying a TCAS system of some sort but even then that may not be enough. How can we prevent these kinds of accidents? Obviously you need to be vigilant in scanning for traffic, but it doesn't seem like that is enough. This is a terribly sad accident. It makes me sick, and to be honest a little scared/worried/nervous...
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It is one of my biggest fears also. I'm always afraid that I'm missing traffic in my scan, or another pilot is missing me. I always try to have a rubber band neck. It seems to me it is something that can always bite you no matter how good your scan is, your position reports are, or what ATC services you are receiving. If I am fortunate enough to have my own plane some day, I will most definitely invest in a collision avoidance system to identify traffic. I'm not saying that would solve the problem, but it would at least help.

My deepest condolences go out to the families of those who were lost. Stories like these always give me the chills. :(
 
ozone said:
'Cause if you cant, then I would see no reason for ANY flight school not to turn on their TCAS, PCAS etc. on their planes for safety. There's even a WARNING on the sectional just west of Hollywood, FLA about "concentrated flight training" for cripes sake!
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again, its not a matter of "turning it on", the necessary equipment is just not installed in the majority of the GA fleet.

The two major options for light GA will be :

- TIS via a Mode S transponder (~$3500 + installation) which works near most major metro areas.
- ADS-B ($4300 and up + installation) which only works where are there are ground stations to support it which is alaska + the eastern seaboard right now.

and to a lesser degree:
- PCAS ($600 - 1800 it looks like) self contained passive unit rather than a panel mounted installed piece of equipment.

TIS and i assume ADS-B are just radio units, they need something to display their info on. If you have a garmin 430/530/1000 great, if its an older radio stack then you need to also account for the cost of a 430 or a suitable MFD that can interface with the TIS or ADS-B equipment. A garmin 430 is going to cost you around $6000 plus installation.

and if you want real TCAS, from what i can tell you are looking at a minimum cost of 25k with many installations costing quite a bit more than that (80-100k).

Im sure your flight school will be happy to "turn on their TCAS" if you would be willing to buy the equipment for them and pay the for the avionic shop to install it.
 
casey said:
Im sure your flight school will be happy to "turn on their TCAS" if you would be willing to buy the equipment for them and pay the for the avionic shop to install it.
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No need for a full TCAS system. Something like a PCAS or TIS would do.

As for money, I already am a paying customer. They don't have to pay the equipment off in one full payment.
 
I know the TCAS technology is great. It's very helpful. But the one thing I always feel there isn't enough of is scanning. Why? Probably because it's boring. It involves looking at nothing for too long, you can't really focus on anything. And 99% of the time there is little to no reward.

Students liked to keep their eyes glued to the 6 pack. If you tell them they have to hold altitude and airspeed, but don't give them good tools to do so using outside references, they keep their eyes glued inside, staying about 75% inside and 25% out.

I've even had a close call in the ERJ. And believe me, typically there is very little scanning in the terminal area done by pilots at my airline. On takeoff the pilot flying (usually) wants to hand fly. Mind you we're departing some of the busiest airspace in the US. The flying pilot usually will have his head buried in the flight director and spends no time outside. Then again (not sure why), the non flying pilot will do his flow as quick as possible and start in on ice checks etc and the checklist (still looking down) at 2-3000 feet still in the busy airspace. We really put 100% faith in ATC and TCAS. I'm sure the day will come where an airliner has a midair, then we'll all shift our focus to midairs.....
 
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