Possible Everglades crash

[ozone]

For what it's worth, after chewing on things a bit and seeing the prices involved in upgrading/retrofitting GA planes, here's my letter to my senator....Anyone, please feel free to plagarize this letter as you see fit.

Dear Senator,

My Parents and I just lost a friend the other day due to an entirely preventable mid-air collision in Florida. He was the owner of Saxy's coffee shop in Basalt and Boulder. Back in 2005, the FAA determined that the ADS-B system for collision avoidance was ready for implementation nationwide after a trial run in Alaska and Ohio. However, their timeline for implementation is 20 YEARS!!!!

Mr. Sax's death and the deaths of the other 3 pilots/students would likely have never happened if the ADS-B system was implemented in a more expedient manner. Likely, the mid-air collision in Grand Junction several weeks ago would also have never happened. I fully understand that no system is fool-proof, but the ADS-B system gets darn close.

As a student pilot myself, I would be happy to pay for my airplane to be outfitted with the necessary equipment. Quite frankly, new and retrofit systems from Garmin and other companies for both general aviation and commercial aviation already have the capability to utilize the ADS-B system. China has already covered much of their national air space with the ADS-B system. It is inexcusable that the congress, senate, and the FAA have dragged their feet on such an important system. I am begging you to investigate this situation and please work toward speeding up implementation of the system to help prevent further loss of life.

Sincerely,

Jackson Maddux, MD

Here's the link for ADS-B in general:
http://www.ads-b.com/home.htm

Here's the link from the FAA:
http://www.faa.gov/about/<wbr>office_org/headquarters_<wbr>offices/ato/service_units/<wbr>enroute/surveillance_<wbr>broadcast/

 

[ozone]

I know the TCAS technology is great. It's very helpful. But the one thing I always feel there isn't enough of is scanning....

My answer to this post is that, IMHO, this would be the fault of the instructor. The TCAS system installed on the plane in which i train sends an audible alert of "traffic, traffic" into my, and my instructor's headsets. At that point, I have been trained to do yet more safety scanning of the surrounding area in addition to the scanning that I have already been taught to do. No electronic system (as i stated in the previous post/letter) is fool-proof, there are too many fools out there. BUT, every added layer of safety helps lower the fool-quotient a little bit.

....just my two cents

 

[Baronman]

My answer to this post is that, IMHO, this would be the fault of the instructor. The TCAS system installed on the plane in which i train sends an audible alert of "traffic, traffic" into my, and my instructor's headsets. At that point, I have been trained to do yet more safety scanning of the surrounding area in addition to the scanning that I have already been taught to do. No electronic system (as i stated in the previous post/letter) is fool-proof, there are too many fools out there. BUT, every added layer of safety helps lower the fool-quotient a little bit.

....just my two cents

I don't disagree that TCAS is a very valuable tool, one which wasn't available to me while I was in GA. Of course in 121 flying we have it, and I've seen how it leads to visual scanning complacency. Could this be happening in GA aircraft? Knowing that people already find scanning "tedious" and then having a tool to rely on IMO would only lead to greater complacency.

I believe at one point I posted about this once before. Descending for an approach into RIC, maybe around 10 thousand we came within I'm guessing 200 feet of a GA aircraft. It was close, we descended right under him. Had we begun our descent a few seconds later or had a different rate of descent I'm convinced we would have collided. Of course the GA aircraft didn't have an operating t-ponder. He didn't appear on our TCAS or the controller's scope.

So I'm saying TCAS is great, but don't rely on it to such a degree that it's the one that doesn't go "Traffic Traffic" that gets you.

 

[HeyEng]

I'm telling you...PCAS is worth the money. I know people will say "yeah, but $500 is a lot of money". If you can afford to fly an airplane, you can make some sacrifices to get a PCAS. I know it will not keep you from getting killed, but it does offer some situational awareness, and for those that are around the mode C veils, it's even better. In the 6 months I have had the thing, it has alerted me on 3 occassions to airplanes that were WAY too close for my comfort that I would have not seen otherwise. Would I have hit them without the PCAS? Well, I don't know the answer, but I can say WITHOUT A DOUBT...it is the best $500 buck I have spent in a VERY, VERY long time!!!

 

[casey]

No need for a full TCAS system. Something like a PCAS or TIS would do.

did you actually read my post, or just the last sentence?

For what it's worth, after chewing on things a bit and seeing the prices involved in upgrading/retrofitting GA planes, here's my letter to my senator....Anyone, please feel free to plagarize this letter as you see fit.

Dear Senator,

My Parents and I just lost a friend the other day due to an entirely preventable mid-air collision in Florida. He was the owner of Saxy's coffee shop in Basalt and Boulder. Back in 2005, the FAA determined that the ADS-B system for collision avoidance was ready for implementation nationwide after a trial run in Alaska and Ohio. However, their timeline for implementation is 20 YEARS!!!!

ADS-B ground stations are already up and running in most of the US. It works where the planes went down. The real campaign needs to be to get costs down to an affordable level for mass GA adoption. The ground infrastructure is already there for the most part (aside from mountainous areas of the west).

 

[BCTAv8r]

did you actually read my post, or just the last sentence?

You failed to quote the rest of my post. I said I recognize that there are extra modifications required that will rise the total cost of the equipment initially. There is no reason why the flight school shouldn't be able to pay for it in a short time period.

All of the aircraft in my school already have GPSs and transponders. Like I already said, a TCAS might be overkill (not for its effectiveness but for its cost). But a PCAS or TIS is feasible. If my flight school can afford to add aircraft to their fleet they should be able to make the current fleet safer.

 

[JDMcFly]

If a PCAS unit costs around $5-600 dollars, it can very quickly be paid off with a tiny ($3-6) increase in cost per hour for each aircraft.

 

[deadstick]

Aircraft owners cried bloody murder when the 30nm Mode C veil came down, and these systems cost much more. Pilots are cheap. If an owner skimps on mx, what makes you think he'll drop $3-5k on this.

More people have to die before the FAA will require it or push up the program. Actually, I'd bet a plane has to fall on the FAA Administrators house first. "20 years out? That's not my problem."

 

[Ophir]

Sadly, I have to report this is the first friend who has been killed in aviation. Brian Sax was the student pilot in the Piper and we were good friends in the college days. He was a great guy. It is really sad.

 

[OldTownPilot]

The Seminole CFI's funeral tomorrow is turning into a Bar Harbor Airlines pilot reunion. Its sad that the only time people tend to get together is when someone dies.

 

[ozone]

update: here's the preliminary NTSB report number ERA09FA080A
Sounds like the cessna was calling on the CTAF, but no radio transmissions were heard from the piper (doesnt mean they weren't monitoring I suppose)...sad

 

[granlistillo]

cost). But a PCAS or TIS is feasible. If my flight school can afford to add aircraft to their fleet they should be able to make the current fleet safer.

TIS is on the way out I think. Was understanding that as SSR radar systems are upgraded that TIS is going byebye. TIS Also as a datalink, which means there are big holes in coverage. If you arent in the neighborhood of a CLASS B or C radar facility, then no luck.

Also, TIS, TAS and even TCAS systems are useless if you hit a guy without mode C on. So, at the end of the day see and avoid is paramount.

I agree though that they are wonderful tools, and I wouldnt fly a plane by choice in congested airspace without using it, if I had the option.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

NTSB Report

NTSB Reports

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/GenPDF.asp?id=ERA09FA080A&rpt=p

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/GenPDF.asp?id=ERA09FA080B&rpt=p