Pop Up IFR

Jones14

Well-Known Member
Here I am again with another enroute tale, and the questions that followed.

Last week I helped deliver an aircraft that my flight school had sold. I was to fly a Cessna 172, and another student and instructor were leading the way in a 172RG. The flight would take us from Southern Illinois to Monroe, WI. All seemed good the morning of, until we got a chance to look up the current enroute weather. Southwest of Chicago was a large line of thunderstorms moving to the Northeast which was smack in the middle of our planned route. So we wait around, talk about a few different options, hope it weakens, etc. We finally decide to change up the route and fly around the West side of the system. There was still light to moderate precipitation forecast for the area, but we said if anyone got uncomfortable we could just land, monitor weather, and go from there. So I'm feeling a bit off kilter to begin with. Single pilot, nasty weather, and a now unfamiliar route that I had to quickly punch into the iPad.

Off we go, in contact with each other via 122.75, the RG leading the way. We both ask for flight following, and announce we are traveling together. We hum along, dark clouds looming at my 2 o'clock. Center mostly talks to the RG, who is 20 knots faster and 20 NM ahead already. She says, "Moderate to heavy precipitation, 25 miles at your 12 o'clock." They press on and report to me that the rain is moderate, but manageable, and they were switched to an Approach frequency. When I reach the area of precipitation, I change course several times dodging the more visible areas, skipping one of the VOR's on my route. Again, fairly unfamiliar with the area and the route itself, I end up on a 010 bearing for the Moline, IL VOR. I'm out of the rain, but at 3,500 I'm noticing some low level clouds forming, leading to more of a broken layer to the Northeast.

Now, I'm in a basic factory 1970-something Cessna, no DME or GPS. At this point I'm fairly disoriented in distance to the VOR I'm tracking and especially the lead aircraft. Finally, I was given to Approach I hear the tail end of a transmission about the RG diverting to a different airport due to deteriorating weather. They were almost instantly given to Chicago Center, so I'm now starting to wonder what's going on ahead of me. My next building issue was that I couldn't communicate with Approach. I suppose I was too far out, and too low. But, they called my tail several times with no joy, and eventually stated I was severely broken. I climbed to 5,500 and finally established comms. They asked me what my intentions were, as continuing to Madison was not a strong choice. I said I'm traveling with the RG Cessna, I would like to also divert to their destination. I still had no idea where they were going at this point, so I asked. "The RG Cessna is diverting into Dubuque, IA."

Okay, where the h*** is Dubuque, IA, I'm thinking. I've got the iPad out, somewhat frantically searching the airports to my West and Northwest. I'm trying to use the search function, but of course I have no freakin' clue how to spell "Dubuque" out of thin air. Hmm... this should be awkward. "Approach, Cessna 6****, request Dubuque identifier, and initial heading." Delta, Bravo Quebec, fly 360. Found it. Okay, at least I know where I'm going now.

I've been trying to talk to the RG through our "buddy comm" for some time, with no luck. It looks like low level broken to overcast off my nose, and I'm still 30+ miles south of DBQ. So now it's getting kind of real. I can press on and hope to find some holes to sneak through. If not it looks good to the West, I'll go elsewhere. Several minutes later and out of nowhere the RG calls. "Hey, we have Dubuque in sight, you'll be over a layer until about 5 miles south of the field. It's clear enough to make it in VFR." So I press on. Dubuque ATIS indicates 1,400 scattered, winds right down the active, but gusting 25. I would assume these low level clouds and winds were some form of outflow from the storm, as it was all out of the Southeast, and a Northeast moving system.

I fly along looking down through the holes. Wondering if I should stay on top, or get below while I still can. I decide 1000 AGL is good enough for me, being this close to my destination. I get low, it's a rough ride and probably 40 knots crossing my route of flight. I'm following an interstate, which appears to lead right to the airport. Ah ha! There it is, just a few miles off my left wing. "Center, Cessna 6**** has Dubuque in sight, request frequency change." "Dubuque tower, Cessna 6****, 4 miles Southeast with Tango, requesting full stop." "Cessna 6****, Call midfield left downwind, runway 13."

I'm not 20 seconds closer to the field.... something isn't right here. That looks like a 130 heading runway, but where's the intersecting one?? It's the wrong field! At this point I've been flying for over 3 hours, getting fairly stressed out, and now have to make yet another awkward call to Tower. "Uhh, tower I'm a bit unfamiliar with the area, looks like I found the wrong field. I'm 15 South, still requesting full stop." "Roger, call 5 South." The weather is still dropping, I end up flying the rest of the way to Dubuque at a legal, but fairly unsettling altitude, and terminate with an uneventful landing and a bad taste in my mouth.

So, with all of this being said. What's the process of requesting a pop up IFR clearance? The aircraft and myself are legal to shoot an approach. They have an ILS to RWY 36 that would have had me through the broken layer with ~600 feet to spare until minimums, and a circle for RWY 13. And man would it have been A LOT safer than me scud running an interstate trying to find the field. I could have requested the approach to Chicago Center 30 minutes prior to reaching the field and saved a whole load of confusion and stress. Is it as simple as just asking? Is this practice a no-no? Does it get reported?

To me, it just seems like a good reason to have and utilize an instrument rating to safely get yourself on the ground. That weather was completely unpredictable, and changing by the second. Not 30 minutes after I landed it was overcast at 900 for the next 3 hours. Part of me feels like it's a bit irresponsible, but from my perspective it would have been a big help.

What should I have done?



And for the record, I think any student pilot could have made the same mistake. :cool:

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To answer the question of how to get a pop up IFR:

You: "Approach N12345, I'm unable to maintain VFR. Request IFR to (destination)"

Me: "Cleared to (destination) via radar vectors, fly heading XXX, maintain XXX"

:)
 
To answer the question of how to get a pop up IFR:

You: "Approach N12345, I'm unable to maintain VFR. Request IFR to (destination)"

Me: "Cleared to (destination) via radar vectors, fly heading XXX, maintain XXX"

:)

Yeah, that's about it. ATC will probably ask if you have radar on onboard, and accommodate whatever you need.

If you think you might need an IFR clearance, you do. That's why it is there.
 
I left out the "are you capable" blurb because you said you and the airplane were both able in the post, but don't be shocked when you're asked.

Yes, it's that easy. From the situation you described you have zero time actual, single pilot, in a single engine airplane, and you're getting caught in soup. Ask (sooner rather than later) and ye shall receive.
 
I'm going to have to be the contrarian on this one... The answers you received are good for about 98% of the time, sometimes the controllers can be too busy to do this for you. (I guess)

I've had the service described several times in different situations, but,

Once in the DC area and once over NY I was told to change frequency to Flight Service, file a full flight plan and come back up on the controller's frequency. Once there I was given a route clearance to destination. It's not a big deal but it's a good idea (I found the hard way) to be ready for it.

I keep a small flight plan card with me to make it easier to file a full plan on the radio as opposed to playing the question and answer game with Flight Service.

I also think it may have something to do with the distance from your destination, both times I was closer to 40 miles out as opposed to 15.

Have Fun and be Safe!
 
It's the wrong field! At this point I've been flying for over 3 hours, getting fairly stressed out,

What should I have done?


Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt to prove it.

When it gets to that point, land at that airport. Close your flight plan if you're on one. Gather your wits. Figure out where you are. Have the airplane refueled. Check the weather. Rest a little bit. Then, with a clear head, an airplane full of fuel, and updated information, make a plan for the best course of action from there.
 
You are right. I figured out rather quickly where I was at once I took another look at the map, but that didn't help the weather one bit. I had a bit of get-there-itis. I wish I could go back in time and ask for that approach into DBQ. I would have still been patting myself on the back rather than still second guessing my decisions one week later. It really wasn't that big of a mess, just a lot happening at once. I still had that thought when I was on the ground though;"That's how people get themselves into big trouble."

Live and learn.
 
I'm going to have to be the contrarian on this one... The answers you received are good for about 98% of the time, sometimes the controllers can be too busy to do this for you. (I guess)

I've had the service described several times in different situations, but,

Once in the DC area and once over NY I was told to change frequency to Flight Service, file a full flight plan and come back up on the controller's frequency. Once there I was given a route clearance to destination. It's not a big deal but it's a good idea (I found the hard way) to be ready for it.

I keep a small flight plan card with me to make it easier to file a full plan on the radio as opposed to playing the question and answer game with Flight Service.

I also think it may have something to do with the distance from your destination, both times I was closer to 40 miles out as opposed to 15.

Have Fun and be Safe!

Just out of curiosity, when you speak of the time(s) over NY and DC - you told a controller you were unable to maintain VFR and you were instructed to return to the freq after you filed? Unable? Not "I'd like," or "I'd like to pick up my..." but an actual "unable" got you that response?
 
I doubt that I used the words "unable to maintain" because I was in VMC where I was and could alter from my desired course to maintain VFR. I couldn't maintain VFR and get to my desired destination in either case.

I see your point, but, I wouldn't put a controller in that position unless I absolutely couldn't maintain VFR.
 
I doubt that I used the words "unable to maintain" because I was in VMC where I was and could alter from my desired course to maintain VFR. I couldn't maintain VFR and get to my desired destination in either case.

I see your point, but, I wouldn't put a controller in that position unless I absolutely couldn't maintain VFR.

If you had been told to go talk to flight service in response to "unable to maintain," I was going to suggest your next words include the phrase "declaring an emergency" - should it EVER happen again.

There is a HUGE difference between "hey, I'd like" and "help me, I can't" and I was just curious if one of my brethren out there didn't know the difference. :)
 
A good distinction to point out.

At the time I had more IFR experience than the the person who started the thread. I had options and as I said, I wouldn't do that to busy controllers unless I had to.

To the OP, I think your two best suggestions were stated already, the "pop up" or to land at the airport you saw first and re-group.
 
Uhm. You're VFR but you're uncertain about where you are becuase you have no DME or GPS? You couldn't punch your "route" in to the Ipad fast enough? What should you do? Read the FARs, invest in some sectionals, put down the Ipad, and learn how to fly VFR. Did they teach you how to triangulate your position from VORs at whatever pilot-factory you attended, or just how to punch in "direct-to"?
 
To the OP, from an approach controller's perspective, the difference between a pop up IFR and pop up VFR other than phraseology is two additional key strokes. Instead of N12345 its N12345 :space: IFR Key. Its a complete non hassle. In fact, I'd much rather you be IFR than constantly shifting headings and altitudes scud running. However with no PIC in actual I can certainly understand why you might be tempted to avoid actual. I'd say tell the controller you are IFR capable and qualified, just not very experienced with it. Also, instead of trying to find an identifier on your Ipad, just ask the controller next time. You have enough on your plate in that situation. Trust me, that's not a dumb or embarrassing question.

The only time its rubs us the wrong way is when someone "forgets" to file or assumes we have a flight plan processing computer right there and in CAVU wants us to put a long range IFR flight plan in the system.
 
Uhm. You're VFR but you're uncertain about where you are becuase you have no DME or GPS? You couldn't punch your "route" in to the Ipad fast enough? What should you do? Read the FARs, invest in some sectionals, put down the Ipad, and learn how to fly VFR. Did they teach you how to triangulate your position from VORs at whatever pilot-factory you attended, or just how to punch in "direct-to"?

While, I have a paltry few flight hours compared to you, I too learned to fly IMC by NDB to minimums circle to land approaches and flew with sketchy at best equipment and relied entirely on pilotage in VMC. I feel to a degree your pain. Go easy on the OP. I'm telling you, those are dying skills. In fact, consider them dead. I've seen pilots VFR in CAVU declare emergencies when they lost their GPS 8 miles from their departure airport. No Gyro approaches? What are those? I'm not referring to the OP in this, but it is the cult of the magenta line (or so I assume its magenta, I have about 20 hours in a Garmin 430 aircraft, didn't use it) This is a teachable moment in the value of low tech options that have worked perfectly for 50 years.
 
While, I have a paltry few flight hours compared to you, I too learned to fly IMC by NDB to minimums circle to land approaches and flew with sketchy at best equipment and relied entirely on pilotage in VMC. I feel to a degree your pain.

Even I don't think it's all about hours. You obviously know how to navigate an airplane from one place to another without GPS or DME under VFR. You could have 40 hours or 40,000, you OUGHT to have that skill. You shouldn't be issued a private pilot license without it. That's not even just my opinion, it's in the PTS.

Go easy on the OP. I'm telling you, those are dying skills. In fact, consider them dead.

I'll go easy on him/her when they're not infesting the airspace in which I fly (and for which I pay). It's not a personal attack, I don't know this dude from Adam, and I'm sure that there are many others who have been similarly underserved by their training. But the notion that a certificated pilot could "not be sure where they are" under VFR in a 172 because they don't have GPS or DME is LUDICROUS. Absurd. My sputtering rage isn't actually directed at the OP, it's directed at the people who trained him and the people who checked him. In fact, what really makes me angry isn't that it's a disservice to me, it's that it's a disservice to HIM.
 
While, I have a paltry few flight hours compared to you, I too learned to fly IMC by NDB to minimums circle to land approaches and flew with sketchy at best equipment and relied entirely on pilotage in VMC. I feel to a degree your pain. Go easy on the OP. I'm telling you, those are dying skills. In fact, consider them dead. I've seen pilots VFR in CAVU declare emergencies when they lost their GPS 8 miles from their departure airport. No Gyro approaches? What are those? I'm not referring to the OP in this, but it is the cult of the magenta line (or so I assume its magenta, I have about 20 hours in a Garmin 430 aircraft, didn't use it) This is a teachable moment in the value of low tech options that have worked perfectly for 50 years.
It's not dead. There's a bunch of us out there still flying /A and /U with radios that barely work. VOR's swing scale to scale, but if they do it consistently you're probably right on course. Fly across the whole country /X and no gyros.(which is by far the funnest way to do it.)

It does sound like the OP needs to ditch the iPad and go learn to fly vfr. 900ft ovc and 1 mile is VFR... all day.
 
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