PNCL's first -900

[ZapBrannigan]

I love how everything about Regional Jets is solely in their name. I mean, I could design a 120 seat jet, call it a McFlyRJ and mainline will never touch it.

I look at another way. I love how airline management convinces the manufacturers to call 100+ seat airplanes "RJs" and suddenly that makes it ok to pay $50/hr for the left seat and less than $20/hr for the right.

Another few years and the 767RJ will be all the rage! Delta Connection Operated by Commutair nonstop from JFK to jolly old England.

When USAir parked the DC9s in early 2001 and furloughed over 1100 people shortly thereafter -- believe me when I tell you we would have been HAPPY to fly any kind of "RJ" management wanted if only they had left it on the property.

Instead ALPA sold the scope (read:jobs) and came up with some lame "J4J" program that was supposed to have made us feel like they were looking out for us furloughees. Right.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Oh! And let's not forget our good friends at RJDC who actually believed that scope clauses were harming their career expectations! Seriously!! Thousands upon thousands of mainline pilots furloughed... narrowbody fleet types parked and replaced with an Armada of "regional jets" darkening the skies over the country... commuters hiring literally THOUSANDS of low-time SJS sufferers....

... but RJDC's career expectations were being harmed by mainline scope clauses???

 

[kellwolf]

Instead ALPA sold the scope (read:jobs) and came up with some lame "J4J" program that was supposed to have made us feel like they were looking out for us furloughees. Right.

And by ALPA you mean the local MEC, right? Remember, each airline negotiates their own scope. Look at CAL. No jets over 50 seats there. Anything more goes straight to mainline....oh, and they're ALPA. Let's put the blame where it belongs, mmkay?

Now, I will definately agree about the RJDC. That's one of the most short sighted organizations in the world. A scope clause hurts their career expectations? Yeah, if they wanna stay at a regional forever. Personally, I'd rather spend a few years at a regional, then move on to a better quality job and retire there. I sure as heck don't want to stay at PCL for the rest of my career. I'd like to have something to move up to as well as not chew my nails whenever the contract with NWA/Delta/etc is up that Mesa, Skywest, Republic or whoever the new lowball regional is won't under bid us.

As for the -900 pay rate, we'll have to wait until at LEAST Jan 08 to hear on that now. Since it's such a complicated issue, the arbitrator has asked for full briefs from both sides. To me, that sounds like a good thing. He could have VERY easily said "Well, this is what everyone else is paying right now, so this is what you get."

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Instead ALPA sold the scope (read:jobs) and came up with some lame "J4J" program that was supposed to have made us feel like they were looking out for us furloughees. Right.

"ALPA" didn't do any such thing. ALPA negotiated a TA, sent it out for a vote, and the rank-and-file members made the decision that that TA was acceptable and that outsourcing flying was what they wanted. The MEC and ALPA National didn't force anything on your pilot group.

 

[nwa757]

What was the point of that post? lol.

Perhaps the guy (USMC-SGT) that thinks his Q400 is so big and great needs to realize that by going to work for Colgan flying those 74 seaters around he is hurting not helping this industry. Again, the Q400 payrates and work rules are disgusting. Unreal.

By the looks of it, 2nd year FOs at XJT make more than Colgan Saab Captains. Makes sense right.

 

[jtrain609]

Perhaps the guy (USMC-SGT) that thinks his Q400 is so big and great needs to realize that by going to work for Colgan flying those 74 seaters around he is hurting not helping this industry. Again, the Q400 payrates and work rules are disgusting. Unreal.

By the looks of it, 2nd year FOs at XJT make more than Colgan Saab Captains. Makes sense right.

You've gotta be Newark based to be that pissed about the Q400's.

Check it out dude; don't worry about Colgan. The chances of them getting the Q's up and running on time are slim at best. Newark won't be going to 50 lines anytime soon.

 

[Seggy]

Just remember it is not ExpressJets OR Colgans flying.

It is Continentals.

We are just outsourced labor. Just like those working at the call centers in New Delhi!

 

[DE727UPS]

"Perhaps the guy (USMC-SGT)"...

Look kid, the guy was in the marines, built time as a CFI, got a job at a regional, and is a moderator at another popular aviation career website.

And you've done?

I think you might want to tone it down a bit....

 

[JDMcFly]

Well, I personally think the Q400 is for sissies anyway.

No real man needs a 'Q'.

 

[Tram]

And you've done?

I think you might want to tone it down a bit....

Why should nwa757 tone it down? He's flying the mighty RJ!

 

[taseal]

I have to say I think that looks real nice

 

[kellwolf]

I have to say I think that looks real nice

...and shiny.

Oh, yeah. It's gonna be a HUGE cluster come this Sat. From what I heard, there aren't any real schedules out since TECHNICALLY no one has done OE and isn't TECHNICALLY qualified on the airplane. There's like one or two check airmen that are qualified to give OE, but they can't award them lines b/c the guys senior to them could grieve it. What would have made SENSE is actually getting people signed off on the planes BEFORE they started flying them. I mean, we've had two planes for a month or so. Would it be that hard to have 5 guys do 3 takeoffs and landings?

 

[meritflyer]

The Pinnacle pilots will be flying the new airplanes at better payrates.

Kinda like the current year 2 FO pay right?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Kinda like the current year 2 FO pay right?

Huh?

 

[jtrain609]

9E's second year pay rate is horrible, and he thinks the -900 rates will be more of the same.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

9E's second year pay rate is horrible, and he thinks the -900 rates will be more of the same.

9E's second year pay rate wasn't determined by an arbitrator that had guidelines under the CBA to establish the new rate based on industry standards. The -900 payrates will be established that way. And with ASA recently signing a new TA, I suspect that the arbitrator will put heavy emphasis on their new TA'd 76-seat rates.

 

[jtrain609]

I don't think it's a TA anymore, they signed the thing.

How would 76 seat rates affect the 86 seat rate? If you want to look at an 86 seat rate you've gotta go to Mesa.

Or is Pinnacle going to fly the -900's as -705's with mixed seating?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don't think it's a TA anymore, they signed the thing.

It's been voted on, but I don't believe the official signatures have been made yet. I doubt Captain Prater has had the time to sign it yet. Technically, it's still a TA until the President puts his signature on the bottom line.

How would 76 seat rates affect the 86 seat rate? If you want to look at an 86 seat rate you've gotta go to Mesa.

Or is Pinnacle going to fly the -900's as -705's with mixed seating?

DAL scope doesn't allow for 86-seat airplanes (thank God). The PCL -900s will be configured with 76 seats in a two-class configuration. Therefore, the new ASA payrates were likely included in the PCL MEC's arguments to the arbitrator, and being the most current rates, I would bet that the arbitrator places heavy emphasis on them. That being said, I haven't asked which arbitrator they got for this, so it's possible that they ended up with a bad one. Kellwolf, any idea which arbitrator is hearing this case?

 

[kellwolf]

No clue. I had the e-mail around here, but it's gone into the ether by now.

I got drafted into the P2P group the other day, so at least I'm in the loop on things now.

 

[jtrain609]

No clue. I had the e-mail around here, but it's gone into the ether by now.

I got drafted into the P2P group the other day, so at least I'm in the loop on things now.

Gonna be using this with the grievance that's coming back soon?