PNCL pilots are our brothers! Unity?

sherpa said:
I figure their thinking is that cjc is salivating at the opportunity to fly their jets.
Click to expand...

We are?

:-)

I bet if you took a poll of all the colgan pilots, the only ones that would want to go to the rj, would be doing it for the base, and most of them are prob smart enough to know not to pick your equipment because of a base... oh well, I guess they're right, how could I ever be content on a turbo prop?
 
sherpa said:
I figure their thinking is that cjc is salivating at the opportunity to fly their jets.
Click to expand...

I dont think any pinnacle guys care about colganites flying "our" jets (they are actually deltas). They would only care if a '10 hire at colgan was allowed to upgrade in them before a pinnacle 07-08 hire.
 
blee256 said:
I dont think any pinnacle guys care about colganites flying "our" jets (they are actually deltas). They would only care if a '10 hire at colgan was allowed to upgrade in them before a pinnacle 07-08 hire.
Click to expand...

Depending on the 21 Saab's that "we" are currently parking, its much more likely that a pinnacle 07 hire would actually end up in the left seat of a colgan saab/Q. We have 2009 hire colgan pilots in the left seat of the Q.

Really, and honestly, merging the colgan group with pinnacle is only going to bring positive vertical movement to 9E pilots. We are still WAY understaffed as it sits. If you break down the number of pilots we have vs. The number we need, I am being honest when I say, a relative merger with us would only change your number a little, and not affect you bidding power or qol at all. Rather the opposite, it would likely allow upgrades that would't otherwise be happening.
 
Date of hire seems to be the most logical choice to me and i am a pinnacle guy. Our MEC and sli committee went you and submitted what they thought was best for us at pinnacle and i thank them for it. You are not going to get anything you want if you dont aim high with the realization that you are not going to get everything that you want.
But back to the date of hire
As a regional pilot 90% of us are here to fly at this regional and then move on to a major. We all chose the perspective places that we work at with the expectation that we woudl eventually move up the list and then move on. Because the regional airlines are all at liberty to the majors they fly for, they really have no control over their futures other than the contracts they sign. So in other words, the only thing you can correctly predict is the past. Now throw 2 other pilot groups in the mix, one small and one mid sized. Not everyone is going to be happy at all but if we step back and take the view point that this airline of 3 was always an airline of one from the day that we got hired then it makes more sense.
If I am a pinnacle pilot hired on april 3 of 2004, than i am senior to anyone at my airline below me and at the other two airlines anyone who was hired on april 4 of 2004 or later. I made the choice to go to my airline when i did and i am not being penalized for it. XJ will win a little at the top in this scenario but down the list a little xj and 9e will mostly mix but this scenario splits colgan up the way it should be since they are the airline that has had the most recent growth.
I believe this is the most fair way and I am interested to see how the actual list comes out.
 
jg1585 said:
Question for XJ and 9E pilots: What is the most junior DOH captain right now??

Thanks
Click to expand...

For Pinnacle, on last vacancy, the most junior upgrade was a DOH of March 2007. Class date March, Sim date May 2007 (official hire date). But for practical purposes, it's March 2007 most junior upgrade.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Depending on the 21 Saab's that "we" are currently parking, its much more likely that a pinnacle 07 hire would actually end up in the left seat of a colgan saab/Q. We have 2009 hire colgan pilots in the left seat of the Q.

Really, and honestly, merging the colgan group with pinnacle is only going to bring positive vertical movement to 9E pilots. We are still WAY understaffed as it sits. If you break down the number of pilots we have vs. The number we need, I am being honest when I say, a relative merger with us would only change your number a little, and not affect you bidding power or qol at all. Rather the opposite, it would likely allow upgrades that would't otherwise be happening.
Click to expand...

Who are you referring to with the "we"? mesaba or colgan? If colgan, i wasnt aware of that, the only saabs we might park are mesaba's due to delta wanting only jets. and currently pinnacle is upgrading a good deal of pilots. Or at least we have been this year. Not sure when the next vacancy will be.

I think the problem is the perception from each pilot group. In your post it seems like you are saying colgan has everything to lose and nothing to gain in the SLI because of upgrades and so on. You have to understand pinnacle pilots see it differently, as well as mesaba. I dont know what mesaba's view is in the whole deal, except maybe they feel they have been the better airline, better ran, and the best safety culture. I get the sense that some think they are better than pinnacle and possbly colgan as well. to that i say, whatevers. haha. But back to the topic..Pinnacle's pilot view is that colgan has everything they have BECAUSE of pinnacle and its purchase of them. So thats where the differences in opinion for the SLI begin. So i dont think we will ever see eye to eye due to our background. but as i mentioned before its gonna happen. hopefully i end up as #1 on the combined list, and everyone can get over it and move on. haha. but seriously good luck and when the list comes out next week, dont take it personally.
 
blee256 said:
Who are you referring to with the "we"? mesaba or colgan? If colgan, i wasnt aware of that, the only saabs we might park are mesaba's due to delta wanting only jets. and currently pinnacle is upgrading a good deal of pilots. Or at least we have been this year. Not sure when the next vacancy will be.

I think the problem is the perception from each pilot group. In your post it seems like you are saying colgan has everything to lose and nothing to gain in the SLI because of upgrades and so on. You have to understand pinnacle pilots see it differently, as well as mesaba. I dont know what mesaba's view is in the whole deal, except maybe they feel they have been the better airline, better ran, and the best safety culture. I get the sense that some think they are better than pinnacle and possbly colgan as well. to that i say, whatevers. haha. But back to the topic..Pinnacle's pilot view is that colgan has everything they have BECAUSE of pinnacle and its purchase of them. So thats where the differences in opinion for the SLI begin. So i dont think we will ever see eye to eye due to our background. but as i mentioned before its gonna happen. hopefully i end up as #1 on the combined list, and everyone can get over it and move on. haha. but seriously good luck and when the list comes out next week, dont take it personally.
Click to expand...



By we I meant all three companies. I really don't mean it too seem like I'm saying colgan pilots have everything to lose, I've been trying to say, that we are still very understaffed, and that's good for everybody. I also, honestly think that the Q is just as valuable as a crj, and to the more junior amongst us, would result in better qol, so I hope that is represented in the sli.

Using the best of my crappy math, it looks like we are close to 15% understaffed for the planes we have. If we had merged lists right when pncl corp bought us, would you still feel the same way? Its all pretty irrelevent, we've had the 9e paid for the planes / colgan had the contract for the planes many times, but the result is still the same, and soon enough it will be open to any pilot. Sure its 2 years later, and so long as messaba doesn't have to displace pilots, then it should give spots for most of the 2006+ hires that want it
 
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Jet FO
Group 3: Turboprop CA
Group 4: Turboprop FO
Group 5: XJ Furloughees
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH


If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Jet FO
Group 3: Turboprop CA
Group 4: Turboprop FO
Group 5: XJ Furloughees
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH


If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
Click to expand...

:rotfl:
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Jet FO
Group 3: Turboprop CA
Group 4: Turboprop FO
Group 5: XJ Furloughees
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH


If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
Click to expand...

:yup:
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Jet FO
Group 3: Turboprop CA
Group 4: Turboprop FO
Group 5: XJ Furloughees
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH


If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
Click to expand...

That is just unfair.

You said relative in unfair...
 
So if I applied, I wouldn't upgrade for a while? I need jet PIC.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Jet FO
Group 3: Turboprop CA
Group 4: Turboprop FO
Group 5: XJ Furloughees
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH


If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
Click to expand...

I don't think you have to worry about any one taking you to Vegas any time soon. BTW what direction does the sun come up in your world?
 
WalterSobchak said:
I don't think you have to worry about any one taking you to Vegas any time soon. BTW what direction does the sun come up in your world?
Click to expand...

Kinda funny on that category and class, I would move up in on own Seniority list. Not to mention, pre JCBA the SAAB FO's made more than the pinnacle -200 FO's so shouldn't that be a whole other category above Jet FO?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Remember, category/class, as proposed by Pinnacle, is the most likely form of an arbitration result. Just look at past historical cases to see for yourself. DOH or straight up relative is hardly used.

Pinnacle's proposal would probably have been in this flavor:

Group 1: Jet CA
Group 2: Cherokee_Cruiser
Group 3: PNCL FO's
Group 4: XJ CA
Group 5: XJ FO
Group 6: All hired after June 2010 by strict DOH
Group 7: XJ Furlougees
Group 8: CJC Pilots arranged by height, because they experienced growth at MY expense!

If I was a bettin man, I'd imagine if Bloch does a category/class method, it will be very similar to above, with the exception that Turboprop CA would be Group 2, and Jet FO would be group 3. But no matter, the list is coming out latest by Friday.
Click to expand...

I've altered it to read what you actually meant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top