Pitch. Power. Trim.

[jrh]

I hope I don't get bashed on for this, but trim for airspeed and power for altitude. Next time your out flying, trim for an airspeed. Then add 300RPM, should give you roughly 300FPM climb and around minus 3-5 kts. Then adjust power for level flight again. Then reduce power by 300 RPM, which should equal 300fpm descent and plus 3-5 knots.

Hence pitch for an airspeed and power for an altitude. And please, keep the rebutal's nice.:hiya:

The only problem I have with what you're saying is that it's only one side of the coin. It's kind of like the pitch for airspeed, power for altitude / pitch for altitude, power for airspeed debate that never ends. The reality is that they're both completely intertwined.

Trim works for both airspeed and control forces. You can't adjust one without adjusting the other. They are completely and directly linked.

Power controls both speed and altitude.

Pitch controls both speed and altitude.


The trim for airspeed, power for altitude technique you described works fine. A person just needs to understand there are equally acceptable ways of thinking about it and doing it.

 

[Blackhawk]

You complete the turn, keeping the cotton string on your windshield straight. The "seat of the pants" feeling will cease to exist when the situation has stabilized. Things calm down.

A yaw string works on many SEL airplanes as well, although the prop wash will interfere on some airplanes. I've found that on my Super D. it's dead on; on some 172s it's not always accurate, but on some it is. When possible, I use one. When not, I again have the person look outside, and not fixate on the trim ball... which usually leads to other problems.

 

[WApilot]

When I get a new student whose never flown, I too teach pitch, power, and trim off the get-go.
With student pilots, cover up the instruments, make them look outside and fly the airplane. Some already forcus outside and have no problem holding altitude while those that get the panel covered all of a sudden quit the roller coaster ride and enter smooth air

 

[MNFlyGuy]

As a newer CFI it was interesting for me to see a student, almost ready to flare, add power to adjust for a decaying airspeed. We were in a position that just a bit of pitch down would have protected airspeed and resulted in touch down just past the numbers. He added power when I mentioned his airspeed. The initial result was leveling out at the low airspeed as no pitch correction was made, and a very long landing.

Clearly pitch and power are two terms in the energy managment equation. Depending on the result you are looking for drives how you make adjustments.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

When I get a new student whose never flown, I too teach pitch, power, and trim off the get-go.
With student pilots, cover up the instruments, make them look outside and fly the airplane. Some already forcus outside and have no problem holding altitude while those that get the panel covered all of a sudden quit the roller coaster ride and enter smooth air

I've had the same experience. I've covered up the instruments on intro lessons and seen people who have never flow before hold heading and altitude to better than private PTS standards.

 

[moxiepilot]

I routinely use post it notes to cover up everything but the airspeed indicator. R

Try covering up the AS indicator too, ie: no 6 pack at all. You;d be surprised how many students will nail the pitch and be +/- 5 kts for each leg. Most students will be +/- 100 feet on downwind too.

 

[Hacker15e]

The only problem I have with what you're saying is that it's only one side of the coin. It's kind of like the pitch for airspeed, power for altitude / pitch for altitude, power for airspeed debate that never ends. The reality is that they're both completely intertwined.

Trim works for both airspeed and control forces. You can't adjust one without adjusting the other. They are completely and directly linked.

Power controls both speed and altitude.

Pitch controls both speed and altitude.


The trim for airspeed, power for altitude technique you described works fine. A person just needs to understand there are equally acceptable ways of thinking about it and doing it.

Great post.

Whenever I hear CFIs (or any other pilot, for that matter) give a hard-line stance on "pitch for airspeed, power for altitude", I want to go strap them into the T-38 or F-15 and have them try that technique out -- it doesn't work. They will end up a smoking hole 500 feet short of the threshold or landing 2,500' down the runway by following that technique.

It many times works well for general aviation aircraft, but it is by far a hard and fast rule and there are many exceptions to it.

 

[tgrayson]

Great post.

Except that it's wrong from a technical perspective, and it doesn't matter what kind of airplane you're flying. In steady state flight, AOA always controls airspeed (not pitch). Rate of climb, in steady state flight, depends on excess power, or excess thrust for angle of climb. You can achieve excess power (or thrust) through throttle movements, or by changing your airspeed through AOA changes. Throttle never controls airspeed in steady state flight.

What confuses people is that in most situations, you need to perform two tasks; there is normally a required airspeed change and a flight path change, which may require the movement of two flight controls.

Reversing the function of these controls will generally work on the front side of the power curve, but not on the backside. If you get low and slow on short final, thinking of the yoke as the "up" control is a real problem.

 

[USMCmech]

Try covering up the AS indicator too, ie: no 6 pack at all. You;d be surprised how many students will nail the pitch and be +/- 5 kts for each leg. Most students will be +/- 100 feet on downwind too.

I'll cover the airspeed indicator for any advanced students, but I don't expect a pre solo student to guage AS by sound.

 

[Cessna414JJB]

I'll cover the airspeed indicator for any advanced students, but I don't expect a pre solo student to guage AS by sound.

Well, you should not! No! Imagine that student goes out and buys a F15 or a T38 and then you would be responsible for the smoking hole he leaves....

 

[Hacker15e]

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[Hacker15e]

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[MidlifeFlyer]

I'll cover the airspeed indicator for any advanced students, but I don't expect a pre solo student to guage AS by sound.

My students do no-ASI landings before their first solo.

It's not solely by sound. It's primarily by pitch - looking out the window.

 

[Blackhawk]

:yeahthat: All my pre-solo students have to do the same. Usually, just prior to solo, all I have to do is ask, "How's your pitch?" and the student will give me the correct response. They can usually maintain approach airspeed within 5 knots and a proper approach angle. With this, they use the ASI to confirm what they see with pitch instead of chasing their ASI all over and porpoising down final.

 

[mshunter]

The only problem I have with what you're saying is that it's only one side of the coin. It's kind of like the pitch for airspeed, power for altitude / pitch for altitude, power for airspeed debate that never ends. The reality is that they're both completely intertwined.

Trim works for both airspeed and control forces. You can't adjust one without adjusting the other. They are completely and directly linked.

Power controls both speed and altitude.

Pitch controls both speed and altitude.


The trim for airspeed, power for altitude technique you described works fine. A person just needs to understand there are equally acceptable ways of thinking about it and doing it.

For starters, thanks for keeping it nice. I agree that they are all intertwined. But, if you adjust power, and leave trim alone, the airplane does not change speed(too much). Thats where I get that from. So, If you want to increase airspeed, yes, you have to adjust power, and, *AND* trim. And, if you adjust pitch with out adjusting power, you will change speed. I completely agree with what you aare saying, I was just rushed in my response. And, I hear the wife nagging again, so this one will be short too.

 

[Douglas]

I was on my CFII Check ride the first time I ever heard anybody say anything about trimming for airspeed in level flight.

I think what you guys are talking about is a giant circle, it looks like this O. :cwm27:

IMO, it is all the same thing that was phrased differently to us by our own instructors, and now we pass it down that way to our students.

 

[Fly_Unity]

I always teach my students pitch, power, and trim when changing phases of flight.


When initiating a climb it's PITCH to horizon, POWER full, and TRIM as needed.

When initiating a descent its PITCH down, POWER to 2,000, and TRIM as needed.

PITCH POWER TRIM... I probably say it a million times in the beginning of training.

I teach Power first except when leveling off from a climb


to start a climb, Power, Attitude (pitch as you would call it), Trim
to start a descent Power, Attitude, Trim
to level off from a descent Power, Attitude, Trim
to level off from a climb, Attitude, Power, Trim

Learned that from a JC member at my old flight school, I like it better then Pitch, Power, Trim

 

[Douglas]

For descents - (prior to descent plane is level, trimmed out for hands free flying at a given power setting).
1. Reduce power until desired descent rate established (still hands free).
2. Power is restored to previous trimmed power setting. (Roughly 50 ft before desired altitude)
3. You do nothing as the nose comes up by itself, and airplane is still trimmed out and you are still hands free in level flight.

A good demonstration makes students realize they don't have to work so hard.


*In all of my dual given, I don't think I have ever said, "Pitch, Power, Trim".

 

[tgrayson]

But, if you adjust power, and leave trim alone, the airplane does not change speed(too much).

Any speed change you get from power adjustment is all due to secondary effects. An increased propeller slipstream on the horizontal stabilizer will retrim the aircraft to a different AoA, often a higher one, which will decrease airspeed. Increasing thrust in jets may cause either an increase or decrease in airspeed due to the thrust line being above or below the center of gravity. This will retrim the aircraft for a different angle of attack just as if you moved the yoke or adjusted the trim wheel. Trim is trim. In all instances, however, there is an AoA change that results in the new airspeed.

If you want to increase airspeed, yes, you have to adjust power, and, *AND* trim.

No, you don't need to touch power, as long as you're willing to accept a change in your flight path. You need to adjust power only if you want to preserve altitude while maintaining the new airspeed. This increased power is necessary because the power requirements for the increased airspeed are higher than at the lower airspeed (if you're on the front side of the power curve). If you fail to increase power, you're running a power deficit, which is synonymous with being in a descent.

The yoke and throttle do very different things and you need to understand what each one does before you can mix and match them to achieve your desired results. Skipping that step and just telling people that they need to adjust both controls in whatever way works is insufficient guidance, in my view, because it doesn't give them tools to predict behavior.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

The way two teaching techniques that were designed to simplify explaining the pitch/power relationship in flight for new students have become competing gospels with zealous adherents is somehting that I still find somewhat amazing.