Pinnacle sets the standard for regional airlines

PeanuckleCRJ said:
But... scope improvement opportunity!!!!
Click to expand...

I'm drinking.

I could write a five pager about our "improvement opportunities" and I might have to temporarily suspend myself for egregious use of expletives and other colorful, loaded language.
 
In the interest of "keeping it real", those bitching about Pinnacle's contact were probably wishing a year ago that Pinnacle would go out of business so their company would have a chance pick up Pinnacle's flying.
 
Seggy said:
In the interest of "keeping it real", those bitching about Pinnacle's contact were probably wishing a year ago that Pinnacle would go out of business so their company would have a chance pick up Pinnacle's flying.
Click to expand...

Well, they learned it from mainline.

After 9/11, it was "If United goes down, we'll be ok" then "If American goes down, we'll be alright".

It's like that PSA back in the day:

 
Derg said:
Well, they learned it from mainline.

After 9/11, it was "If United goes down, we'll be ok" then "If American goes down, we'll be alright".

It's like that PSA back in the day:

Click to expand...

Damn it, why is my foot bleeding. Hmm, it appears I'm also missing a bullet from my illegal handgun...
 
Derg said:
Forgot the sarcasm tag, Trick! :)

Seriously. Pilots will justify questionable decisions by pinning a tough decision on ancillary considerations every time.
Click to expand...

Who says I forgot, I was reading the epic MikeD troll thread earlier this morning... :D
 
And for the record:
suckitpcl.jpg
 
Seggy said:
In the interest of "keeping it real", those bitching about Pinnacle's contact were probably wishing a year ago that Pinnacle would go out of business so their company would have a chance pick up Pinnacle's flying.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, since I don't even have a puppy in the fight, if that would have happened, would the rest of the industry be facing pressure to drop to pinnacle's level?
 
z987k said:
Out of curiosity, since I don't even have a puppy in the fight, if that would have happened, would the rest of the industry be facing pressure to drop to pinnacle's level?
Click to expand...

GoJet's level instead (which is still lower). And GoJet's doesn't have a concessionary contract.

What airlines like about Pinnacle's is the 7 year duration, effectively a 10-13 year contract, with low caps on longevity. I'm not a pro negotiator so I'm speculating.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Actually I'm about to go sleep just fine in another 15 min (3 min now since I wrote this). I'm happy a lot of the time.

Our vote wasn't about you, or the industry, it was about us. It was bankruptcy, not Section 6. The Phil Trenery business model failed and we voted to take huge hits to our pay to keep the doors open so they could re-organize. Mesaba, at our worst, still had a company with hundreds of millions in the bank. We had to deal with deal with Colgan, Gulfstream, Great Mistakes, and (of course) Big Sky payrates, never mind the Mesa's, Transtates, and who the hell ever else was working for nothing and we came out big.

If we'd voted no, then you all would be congratulating us and talking about "how great it was" those Pinnacle pilots shut down their company and our airplanes went out for another bid, probably GoJets. Your, and other's undying pats on the back don't pay the bills. You'd still have market pressure from GoJets to lower the bar.

There is no unity. Pattern bargaining is a failure. The pilot who sells himself cheapest wins, as long as the pilot group doesn't crash too many airplanes. If it does and it's handled right, you'll still likely see more airplanes. This is your industry, it's been crumbling for a while.

Pinnacle had an honest to God meltdown, and ALPA and the brother and sister pilots out there couldn't fix that. You can't change the law or come to a bankruptcy court whining about "what's fair". Hell even the bankruptcy judge in NY refused the Pinnacle terms in the ask and said he wouldn't help precipitate a race to the bottom. The negotiations got turned around, and the only way to get what we have now (remaining soft pay) was to give them a long term contract. The contract isn't the worst paying one out there.

Furthermore, the company comes out and gives you their first offer, make sure you have a giant ass meltdown online. Truthfully that's what fixes your bargaining. Do I wish Mesaba never was bought by Pinnacle, that we never had to deal with bankruptcy? Sure. I wish that Skywest had bought us and tossed us in with ASA/XJT. At least we'd be at a company that makes money instead of pissing it all away. Pinnacle pilots didn't have a fighting chance, and now we are wholly owned because there was NO business model going forward without Delta providing our financing and "selling" us their lift.
Click to expand...

Well good for you. You and I see this very differently. Maybe you would have gone out of business, maybe not. What we do know is because of your "it's all about me (pinnacle plus individuals) the rest of us are in jeopardy of loosing our livelihoods to you and for what? Great job helping our industry as a whole. When our vote comes up for the same thing, I will tell them to shove it. I might lose my job but I will be able to stand proud and say I wasn't going to be part of our industry's further whipsaw raping.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Well good for you. You and I see this very differently. Maybe you would have gone out of business, maybe not. What we do know is because of your "it's all about me (pinnacle plus individuals) the rest of us are in jeopardy of loosing our livelihoods to you and for what? Great job helping our industry as a whole. When our vote comes up for the same thing, I will tell them to shove it. I might lose my job but I will be able to stand proud and say I wasn't going to be part of our industry's further whipsaw raping.
Click to expand...


APC has a tool of the day thread. Maybe we should start one.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Well good for you. You and I see this very differently. Maybe you would have gone out of business, maybe not. What we do know is because of your "it's all about me (pinnacle plus individuals) the rest of us are in jeopardy of loosing our livelihoods to you and for what? Great job helping our industry as a whole. When our vote comes up for the same thing, I will tell them to shove it. I might lose my job but I will be able to stand proud and say I wasn't going to be part of our industry's further whipsaw raping.
Click to expand...


Ah, the fabled "industry". If you think you can help the "industry" I got news for you, the "industry" (euphemism for pilots) is happy to cannibalize itself. You can't help the self destructive.

My concessionary contract is still a smaller paycut than when I went from Saab CA to -900 FO:
Saab CA (last year longevity wage): ~$46 an hour
CRJ -900 FO (first year as FO): ~$32 an hour
CRJ-900 FO (last year as 900 FO): ~$46 an hour
CRJ-200 FO (this year): $37 an hour

Be strong, it's just the regionals, and the majors will suck us all up in 2-5 years. Figure out how to make the best of the situation and keep saving. Pilots will never act in unity, the best you can hope for is a CBA negotiated by a hard working union. If you get real lucky you'll end up at an airline that doesn't need a union and you are just paid fairly. This is your "industry", it's the way it's always been, you just haven't had idealism beaten out of you yet. It's a purging sensation.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." -John F. Kennedy. Use that quote however you want.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Ah, the fabled "industry". If you think you can help the "industry" I got news for you, the "industry" (euphemism for pilots) is happy to cannibalize itself. You can't help the self destructive.

My concessionary contract is still a smaller paycut than when I went from Saab CA to -900 FO:
Saab CA (last year longevity wage): ~$46 an hour
CRJ -900 FO (first year as FO): ~$32 an hour
CRJ-900 FO (last year as 900 FO): ~$46 an hour
CRJ-200 FO (this year): $37 an hour

Be strong, it's just the regionals, and the majors will suck us all up in 2-5 years. Figure out how to make the best of the situation and keep saving. Pilots will never act in unity, the best you can hope for is a CBA negotiated by a hard working union. If you get real lucky you'll end up at an airline that doesn't need a union and you are just paid fairly. This is your "industry", it's the way it's always been, you just haven't had idealism beaten out of you yet. It's a purging sensation.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." -John F. Kennedy. Use that quote however you want.
Click to expand...

Such nonsense Joe. I'm a Bendovour pilot for life. What you talkin about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

SurferLucas
Oh ‘Mericun XXL
3 4 5
Replies
87
Views
9K
derg
derg
F
The Pleasure of Their Company (long)
Replies
12
Views
3K
ppragman
ppragman
Cherokee_Cruiser
Oh Delta XLVII
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
Cherokee_Cruiser
Cherokee_Cruiser
Oxman
Delta pilot suing airline for $1 billion over communications app
2 3
Replies
40
Views
4K
SlumTodd_Millionaire
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Oxman
Analysis-Pilot Training Puzzle Tests U.S. Airlines as Travel Takes Off
Replies
0
Views
652
Oxman
Oxman
Back
Top