Pinnacle Purchases Colgan Air

kellwolf said:
They can hold that over our heads b/c it's actually in the agreement with NWA. If we haven't signed a contract by March 31st, NWA has the OPTION to remove those planes. Our management has no say in if we lose the planes. They can cry "we'll lose the 15 planes if you don't sign the contract." But, you're right. We've been ready to negotiate for months. Management has been the one dragging their feet. Now we find out they've been busier signing an agreement with NWA (which they said couldn't be done without a contract) and buying another airline (which they said we were sort on funds). Rumor has it the FAs got a TA over the weekend on their new contract, so hopefully something will happen soon. For the past few months management has been saying something to the effect of "Well, we want a response on our current offer." They've gotten the same response numerous times, and it's been "No" every time. I guess they think if they keep asking the same question, they might eventually get a different answer....
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Well, you can give a different ansewr than no.

Let me see,

"Go <screw> yourself, management!"

"Seriously, go <screw> yourself, management!"


;)


Would you agree the biggest problem right now is scope?


I mean even if management offers nice pay raises and QOL upgrades, what good will that do if there is no decent scope to prevent farming out your flying?


Has management caved in from demanding relaxed scope?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Would you agree the biggest problem right now is scope?
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Not sure if I'd say that's the biggest problem, but I would say it's the biggest threat. It's a deal breaker for me, and it's high on the list of things I'd walk over. I'm not alone in that. I'd take a smaller pay raise if it meant keeping the same scope clause we already have. Since we've gotten the green light from NWA to fly for other carriers, there's ABSOLUTLEY no reason to relax the scope. Technically, that even eliminated the reason for a second certificate.

I mean even if management offers nice pay raises and QOL upgrades, what good will that do if there is no decent scope to prevent farming out your flying?
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Exactly. We could be making $50/hr, but it would do no good if all of our flying went to an alter ego carrier. Coglan guys, I don't see you as that, and neither do a majority of the people here. We're just cautious and hopeful that management won't put you in that position. But, as airline industry history has shown repeatedly, it's a possibility.

Has management caved in from demanding relaxed scope?
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Don't know. There haven't been any negotiations since about two weeks after the mediator met with both sides for the first time, and no word since the ASA was signed or the Colgan deal went through.
 
kellwolf said:
A little history lesson on our contract negotions. The company has been trying to get our scope relaxed so they could start up another cert to get flying from other carriers. The carrot dangled was "We need the relief, but you can keep all the NWA flying on your side, and any other flying we get will be flown by the second cert." Well, they've been having trouble with the second cert, so they buy Colgan. Conveniently, Colgan has built-in agreements with other airlines. If the decide to, they could go with their orginal plan, keep the NWA flying at Pinnacle and have Colgan as the "second cert" to fly everything else. If that's the case, I see very little growth on the 9E side. In fact, I'm guessing NWA is gonna grow their new purchase before they give us new plJanes.
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Naaahhh... never happen. :sarcasm: And on an unrelated note, here is the latest rumor (unsubstantiated) going around 9E: "Just announced to employees at XJ, Mesaba gets 36 CRJ-900s." Again, I stress that this is a new, unsubstantiated rumor.http://airlinkpilots.com/cgi-perl/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7306&sid=3335ba26b3eaadf035b6ad2159100858
 
Yeah rumor has it that the FAA wants to up the limit for 135 on demand stuff, but I'll believe it when I see it. That'll mean we get ATR-42's most likely.
 
Word around the place is that's a more or less true rumor. Doesn't really affect us that much. Mesaba is still smaller than they were two years ago, and the -900s almost replace the Avros they already had yanked from them. All this does is give management the card of "we lost the flying because you wouldn't sign the contract." Truth is, we lost the flying because NWA knew where those planes were going the whole time.....
 
dingo222 said:
Heath,

Where are you getting these numbers? APC shows that we are pretty much in the middle for straight pay. Add in the per diem and such, and we are behind. The catch is that if you want to fly a dash for PDT, or a saab for eagle or mesaba, you are looking at eternity for upgrade. The only difference would be with Skywest, on the bro. We all knew the pay when we came to colgan.

I personally think a union of some sort will eventually start here. It won't happen tomorrow, and will probably happen after you and I both upgrade. PCL has a union, and a contract, and they have still been waiting for 3 years to get a raise. No matter who we bring in i.e ALPA, teamsters, in-house, Screen Actors Guild etc, Colgan saab pilots will not get a raise. THey will not pay us more to fly a 34 seat t-prop than a PCL pilot makes on a 50 seat jet. Period.

Our days of being isolated from the rest of the industry are about to end. We still have it pretty good in most respects compared to PCL pilots. We will be fighting to protect that either sooner or later. If you don't mind, what's your Sen #? You can pm it to me if you want. You and I can't be too far apart in senority. I think upgrade will come quicker than we exect. FO's are already bailing out, and more may follow after this buyout. If we add 3 saabs, that's 15 more captains that we will need. If we add bigger planes, say 3, thats 15 more captains and 15 more FO's. Those FO's may come from the saab, moving you up, they may be displaced hondo pilots like seggy, or new hires. THat has yet to be determined.

Dude, I hear ya. Rocketman and I are sucking on second year pay also, and it's tough to say the least. I think upgrade will come quicker than most of us have come to expect, and it will come before all of the union, and 70 seater discussions have finished. J
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I'm 236 right now. Lowest guy on interview list was 188. So, 48 in front of me at 5 per month, 9+ months! :( I'll be on 3rd year FO pay before I upgrade!!! Never thought that would happen!

As far as pay in the middle goes. I found us to be dead last for the Saab. Who pays lower on the Saab? The 1900's a different story, but I couldn't find any Saab rates that were lower than ours. When I took all turbo prop figures by year and averaged them, I came up with around $1.50 below that average, too.

I'm still waiting for union action. We'll see.

Vote yes for the Colgan Regional Airline Pilots, vote for CRAP! :D
 
Man, I was really considering going to Colgan when I finished flight training too. I maybe reconsidering, or at least wait for the dust to settle.
 
I wouldn't skip town on Colgan just yet, newhire classes are forecast to follow through until the begining of september. The first 4 months strictly saab FO intial guys, beyond that they are looking at having an intial newhire program set up for the Q400.
Current Senior Captains will be removed from the line and transitioned to the Q400, i.e. this means a h*ll of alot more than 50 saab upgrades by the end of the summer.
:nana2:
 
Does anyone know how many carriers have the rumor floating around that they are "getting the Q400?" It's ridiculous.

Hell Scenic even had the rumor that they were getting Dash8 200s (and/or possibly even Brasilias) right up until the day we got the press release saying all of the straight 121 scheduled (1900s) flights were going the way of the middle class in this country (i.e. away).

Don't count on the future, base your decisions off what's happening now and what's happened in the past.
 
pilot602 said:
Does anyone know how many carriers have the rumor floating around that they are "getting the Q400?" It's ridiculous.

Hell Scenic even had the rumor that they were getting Dash8 200s (and/or possibly even Brasilias) right up until the day we got the press release saying all of the straight 121 scheduled (1900s) flights were going the way of the middle class in this country (i.e. away).

Don't count on the future, base your decisions off what's happening now and what's happened in the past.
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Well at least the Commutair one has been validated.
 
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