Pinnacle has reached a TA!!!

jynxyjoe said:
Alright. All I know about the guy is that he is very highly spoken of and talking to him on the phone made me think he was a very polite and grateful guy. Glad to hear he's still around and even better than he's a chairman.
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that is because he has most of the pilots snowed...

he is the protege of WG. He has personally fleeced this pilot group more than once.

let me put it this way, he was the former C3 chair, of ALL people he should know the contract more than anyone else. So as the "former" C3, what is his position on the TA?

answer... eerily quiet! why is that? that answer is simple, because many think he walks on water. That is the first mistake, and usually the last.
 
dondk said:
that is because he has most of the pilots snowed...

he is the protege of WG. He has personally fleeced this pilot group more than once.
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I don't really think this is fair. He may have been the protege of WG, but his style is completely different. As far as fleecing the pilot group, yes, he's made a little extra money, but no one did that more than WG. The FPL policy at PCL needs a major overhaul. Captain Beebe tried for years to get it changed, but WG resisted every step of the way.

let me put it this way, he was the former C3 chair, of ALL people he should know the contract more than anyone else. So as the "former" C3, what is his position on the TA?

answer... eerily quiet! why is that? that answer is simple, because many think he walks on water. That is the first mistake, and usually the last.
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Trust me, he has a very firm position on the TA. He's staying quiet because that's his job. The MEC Officers are not there to tell people their personal opinions, they are there to carry out the will of the MEC. The MEC voted to endorse and sent out the TA for ratification, so like a loyal soldier, that's what he's doing.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I don't really think this is fair. He may have been the protege of WG, but his style is completely different. As far as fleecing the pilot group, yes, he's made a little extra money, but no one did that more than WG. The FPL policy at PCL needs a major overhaul. Captain Beebe tried for years to get it changed, but WG resisted every step of the way.
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A little extra money? c'mon.. a little is 10% of the salary. We both know it's way more than that. I will leave the FPL alone, overhaul is an understatement though.

Trust me, he has a very firm position on the TA. He's staying quiet because that's his job. The MEC Officers are not there to tell people their personal opinions, they are there to carry out the will of the MEC. The MEC voted to endorse and sent out the TA for ratification, so like a loyal soldier, that's what he's doing.
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He does not have to provide an opinion. There is language in the TA that should be broken down to pilot language. If for nothing else, end the confusion or how the pilots are reading into or out of the language.

The MEC officers answers to the pilots, the same pilots want answers and they are met with silence. I don't normally disagree with you, but this is a contradiction to compare the chair to a loyal solider, the chair should be the leader and taking an active role. Passive role is what got the TA, not his directly, but a passive role by the MEC.
 
dondk said:
A little extra money? c'mon.. a little is 10% of the salary. We both know it's way more than that. I will leave the FPL alone, overhaul is an understatement though.
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I think if you knew how much work went into being an MEC Chair, you wouldn't have a problem with him taking home more money. But thats just me.
 
dondk said:
A little extra money? c'mon.. a little is 10% of the salary. We both know it's way more than that. I will leave the FPL alone, overhaul is an understatement though.
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He hasn't even flown since last year, so there hasn't been any extra in quite some time. When he was Grievance Chair he was certainly bringing home some bank, but that's been a long time.

The MEC officers answers to the pilots
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As an MEC Officer, I've got to correct this, because it's a common misconception. I don't answer to the pilot group, I answer to the MEC (the status reps). If I disagree with what the MEC is doing, thinking that it's not the will of the pilots, then I have two choices: carry out the direction of the MEC, or resign. I don't have the choice of disagreeing publicly with the MEC and doing something contrary to their direction. I work directly for the status reps.

I don't normally disagree with you, but this is a contradiction to compare the chair to a loyal solider, the chair should be the leader and taking an active role.
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Yes, he should act as a leader, but the direction he leads is up to the MEC, not up to him. His job is to lead the pilot group in the direction that is set by the MEC. They've voted to endorse this TA, so his job is to lead the pilot group towards ratification.

Passive role is what got the TA, not his directly, but a passive role by the MEC.
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Yep, passive role by the Status Reps. That's what got them into this problem. Not Scott.
 
I have spent a few hours on the phone with Scott over the last 3 months or so and must say he DOES NOT hide what his thoughts, opinions, or plans are. But it must be understood that broadcasting the "plan" to everyone from the leader will only end in losing. The NMB meeting where we got a TA did NOT go as planned. We went for our release and folded on the dual status numbers. Scott had no bearing in that- he had no vote on the MEC TA vote. If anything politics ran that meeting to get it to pass. Just watch what happens going forward. Vote according to what YOU feel you have earned and deserve. The politics are being dealt with on the outside with the recalls. This is not the "North MS flying club" anymore.:beer:
 
Hehe.
Personally, the reserve language (I'm on reserve September) alone would be enough for me to say no. Hope everyone votes no and the company understands they have to do more.
 
I am not suggesting broadcasting a plan or taking a position. I heard CS put up a nice little post that suggested the pilots take the 8 or so LOA's and replace the language from the TA sections(s) with the LOA language.

that is leadership, no position taken, nothing suggestive, but simple and pro-active. We all know that most pilots are clueless about the contract and what it really means.

I am not beating up Scott, I am saying the whole process failed. Many sections were TA'd more than 3 years ago, no one had the time to do a cliff notes version so the average non contractually educated pilot can understand?

So, roadshows will come out, I guarantee some are going to be confused because of crew room gossip and what they thought they read versus what it means. That is why I commend CS for stepping up and being a leader and letting pilots know what they read in the scheduling section was trumped by the PBS LOA.

politics had to be commonplace in the TA vote, anything less would suggest the status reps never read the TA.


TO, thanks for the correction, I was under as different assumption, my bad:cool:
 
Some status reps are now even feeding the "if you vote this down, the company can start an alter ego carrier and you junior guys will be on the street" machine. Geez, if that's what we've got for status reps, then we don't NEED enemies from the company. We'll implode on ourselves.

If I am shown how the company will be kept from putting all the RSVs on RR 4-5 times a month for free (okay, for "per diem") and the new 12 hour rule gets nixed or restricted, I'd be okay with the scheduling part. Dual qual HAS to have some sort of job protection clause, though.
 
kellwolf said:
Some status reps are now even feeding the "if you vote this down, the company can start an alter ego carrier and you junior guys will be on the street" machine. Geez, if that's what we've got for status reps, then we don't NEED enemies from the company. We'll implode on ourselves.

If I am shown how the company will be kept from putting all the RSVs on RR 4-5 times a month for free (okay, for "per diem") and the new 12 hour rule gets nixed or restricted, I'd be okay with the scheduling part. Dual qual HAS to have some sort of job protection clause, though.
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Don't forget to vote in the recall if you are MEM based. I have never seen a "leader and representative" run in fear and try to scare everyone out of fighting for a battle we started!!?
 
higney85 said:
Don't forget to vote in the recall if you are MEM based. I have never seen a "leader and representative" run in fear and try to scare everyone out of fighting for a battle we started!!?
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I am baffled at some of the representation and leadership at Pinnacle lately. Just don't understand how any good can come from creating fear among the pilot group. I thought that was a job for management...
 
surreal1221 said:
Zing.

So, let's cut right to the chase.

When's the voting start and end for the TA?
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Voting begins Sept 4 and ends on Sept 24 at 10:00 am eastern.

On another note...

The company sent us a message saying they have cancelled reduced availability lines and voluntary leaves of absences for October.
 
mokulele said:
Voting begins Sept 4 and ends on Sept 24 at 10:00 am eastern.

On another note...

The company sent us a message saying they have cancelled reduced availability lines and voluntary leaves of absences for October.
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Of course. You've got a lot of our flying to do :) I'm just giving you crap.
 
Oh, I already voted in the recall balloting. I like the new on-line voting. Phone voting wasn't too hard, but this is even easier. There's NO excuse for guys to put off voting anymore.

As for the lack of RA/LOAs in Oct, I think it's two fold: #1 our block hours are going back up. Hell, we already had 1400 CA and 990 FO hours of open time in Sept, and we LOST 3000 block hours across the board. They may be trying to bring staffing back around to cover for "increase in unplanned absences" thanks to the new DAL pass "benefits" we've got. #2 They're anticipating the TA passing and having a DOS of Oct 1st. However, that doesn't really fly since bidding and schedules would already be done for Oct. TA may suck, but it DOES mean they'll need more people to staff things. The one issue that bugs me is the clause in the dual qual LOA that says 3-4 crews per airplane. That's thinner than ANY other regional out there, but I wouldn't put it past this place to furlough down to that number to save $0.05.

Joe, you may have the "our flying" right, but it's likely coming from a Comair guy rather than a Mesaba guy. That's my sad take on the situation. We never flew LGA-TYS before this merger, and that's all I'm gonna say.....
 
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