Pilots Loading Bags? Good or bad...

[derg]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

I love the "what if i get hurt" reasoning. Unless work comp rules have changed, it does not matter what you are doing. If you are ON DUTY you could fall down because you were picking your nose, and work comp would cover you. If they deny it, any laywer with a pulse could get it for you.

Not true.

I'm on IFOT for the JFK base and just because you're at work and have an injury does NOT mean it's an OJI.

We had a number of situations where people have gotten diseases endemic to being in a particular country they flew to and depending on a variety of circumstances, the OJI administrator is going to find a way *not* to classify it as such.

We had a guy come down with viral meningitis on a layover in the middle east and the insurer is pulling out all of their bells and whistles to declassify the injury as an OJI.

Be careful.

If you're at work, performing duties outside of your job scope, you most likely will not be covered.

If you're a pilot, throwing bags on the ramp and you get injured, the administrator is going to ask if you were trained to throw bags and if you were wearing the proper safety equipment and if you weren't, well, there goes that sick bank.

 

[flx820]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

any clue on what base new hires might be able to hold?? how senior is PIE

 

[Kingairer]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

ANy base you want right out of training, infact look for a quick upgrade to CApt...All bases are super junior!

 

[minitour]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Not true.

I need to see some sort of documentation proving you right on this one.

We had a guy come down with viral meningitis on a layover in the middle east and the insurer is pulling out all of their bells and whistles to declassify the injury as an OJI.

That's because he came down with the disease on the layover, not while "at work". At the airport, in the airplane.

If you're a pilot, throwing bags on the ramp and you get injured, the administrator is going to ask if you were trained to throw bags and if you were wearing the proper safety equipment and if you weren't, well, there goes that sick bank.

What? That's ludicrous. Were you trained to walk by the company (doubtful) or somewhere along the line did you learn how to put one foot forward then put the other foot forward of that foot and repeat it while keeping your balance? So if you trip over something walking down the bridge, you aren't covered? Further, were you wearing a helmet and knee and elbow pads? Better start wearing safety equipment for your walk to the cockpit or you won't be covered.

-mini

 

[derg]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Seriously, enjoy. If almost 15 years in the passenger airline business isn't enough perspective for you, I'm reluctant to go digging around HR manuals in order to prove it to you on my day off.

 

[minitour]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Seriously, enjoy. If almost 15 years in the passenger airline business isn't enough perspective for you, I'm reluctant to go digging around HR manuals in order to prove it to you on my day off.

That's kinda what I figured.

...having worked in several management positions (and industry is irrelevant when discussing worker's comp laws), I've never seen anything saying that if you're doing something outside of your "job description" you aren't covered.

I'd just like to see something written by a solid source...like the department of labor or whatever it's called in your state. I thought that was a fair enough request.

-mini

 

[SeanD]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

any clue on what base new hires might be able to hold?? how senior is PIE

I believe it's either LAS or SFB.

 

[Kingairer]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Throwing bags is for newbies...I barely go beyond the lav most days online.

 

[Gonzo]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

That's kinda what I figured.

...having worked in several management positions (and industry is irrelevant when discussing worker's comp laws), I've never seen anything saying that if you're doing something outside of your "job description" you aren't covered.

I'd just like to see something written by a solid source...like the department of labor or whatever it's called in your state. I thought that was a fair enough request.

-mini

Nothing to say about my post.

 

[minitour]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Nothing to say about my post.

What about it your post? You discussed the financial impact on the company, not the actual legal situation.

Got a link, document, anything from an official source on the actual law that will answer the question?

I'm real sad that it will cost the company x million more to cover a pilot who's injured on the job. See me tearing up? How is that relevant to the "you're covered" vs "you're not covered" debate going on?

Oh .... and

-mini

 

[derg]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Throwing bags is for newbies...I barely go beyond the lav most days online.

A stead diet of "All Bran" will do that to ya!

 

[kellwolf]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

We had a basketball goal at SWA on the ramp. We'd play between flights, while we were on duty mind you. Someone twisted their ankle playing baketball. Even though they were ON DUTY, it wasn't worker's comp. Why? Job duties are listed in the ground ops manual. "Playing basketball" isn't a "job duty." Now, if you fell and twisted your ankle going to or from a flight, that WOULD be a "job duty." Sure, a lawyer will take your case on the appeal, but so will the company lawyers on retainer.

If my back got thrown out tossing a bag at my current company, I can guarandamntee you I'd be tossed under the bus in a heartbeat. They already have enough comp claims thanks to the heavy assed LIDO charts we have to haul around. Besides, if they want me to make sure that flight goes out on time.....sign a decent TA.

Now, if we had some kind of contract language that would guarantee us comp claims while at work, I'd have no problems helping out where I can. You won't see it, though. Too many guys would game the system to get paid to sit at home with a beer laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[cmill]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Too many guys would game the system to get paid to sit at home with a beer laughing all the way to the bank.

This idea intruiges me...

Totally un-related to airlines, but as a freight operator, if we're required (in our op-specs) as a pilot to help the customer load, and its also required by the customer in the contract, thats a no brainer workmans comp thing, right?

Mind you, ive never been given any of this "heavy lifting training."

Just a few bar fights to help toughen my mettle

 

[kellwolf]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

This idea intruiges me...

Totally un-related to airlines, but as a freight operator, if we're required (in our op-specs) as a pilot to help the customer load, and its also required by the customer in the contract, thats a no brainer workmans comp thing, right?

Mind you, ive never been given any of this "heavy lifting training."

Just a few bar fights to help toughen my mettle

If it's required as part of your job (and listed in the job duties), I'd say you're covered. If it's required as part of a contract with the customer, I'd say you're double covered.

 

[Holocene]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

I'm with mini here, who are all these people getting injured?

Sounds like a lot of people grew up without a) a big brother/uncle b) fighting c) physical sports d) manhood downstairs.

There's inherent risk in everything we do in life, and to not to do one thing because lack of compensation if injured is a cop out.

LOL, how frail does one have to be to get severely injured lifting a bag? :cwm27:

I would have more respect for someone simply saying they aren't paid to do that, and so won't do it.

 

[kellwolf]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

LOL, how frail does one have to be to get severely injured lifting a bag? :cwm27:

Try lifting and stacking 200 of them while kneeling in a bin when it's 90+ degrees outside. Just b/c the paperwork SAYS they all weigh 30 lbs doesn't make it true.

 

[ChasenSFO]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Aside from the other reasons about staffing and possible OJIs, I will also add to the list that I don't get a bonus for that, only management does.

At Skywest we get a pretty big bonus for making most of our quickturns, the last one was $380 I think, and that was just for one quarter.

We are very well staffed at SFO. However, when you have 66 people and their bags to get off a plane, 66 people and their bags to put on a plane, and less than 20 minutes to do it, its much more efficient to work as a team. If I handle the carry-on bags, that allows the rampers to focus on the checked bags and load/unload them twice as fast. I can't board the pax until everyone off the inbound has their bags and is on their way anyway. If I wasn't lifting carry-ons, I'd just be standing around upstairs waiting and waiting for all the pax to come up, helping out is being productive. I'm not going to hurt myself lifting a carry-on thats between 20-40 pounds and neither are most of our pilots. I like my company, I like my job, I get treated well, paid well(more than any airline at SFO except AS), and I get great benefits. In turn, I work my ass off to make sure everyone of my flights gets out of my gate as soon as possible. Many of our pilots share this mentality. We're a team at SFO, if there is something I can do to help the ramp that I can do without hurting myself, I'll do it. If I ask them to check and see if a passenger is onboard or not so I can close up the flight quicker, they'll do it for me. And thats how it should be.

If you want to talk about pilots trying to avoid OJI, how about I tell you how many times, yes, plural, I have been pulling back a jetway in pouring rain when everything was slippery as hell and an F/O decided to leap onto the moving jetway to go do his walk around rather than just wait 5 seconds for the air stairs to be unobstructed. Or how many times I've been pulling a jetway back with the warning bell blaring and a pilot wonders infront of the tires and I have to hit the emergency stop switch so as not to steam roll him. Now THAT is the stuff pilots shouldn't be doing. Do I think every pilot should be lifting bags on every flight? God no! But on a quickturn lifting 20 pound bags during a crew change where they are just standing around anyway until everyone is off? I'd say thats not a bad thing to do.

 

[zmiller4]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Aside from the other reasons about staffing and possible OJIs, I will also add to the list that I don't get a bonus for that, only management does. I'll sit and wait for them to load the bags, thanks.

Part of the reason ChasenSFO might be seeing skywest pilots throw bags is that on-time performance and mishandled baggage are two parameters in determining our quarterly performance bonus--which can actually be pretty big if the numbers are good enough. Additionally, I'd like to think that good on-time performance is a substantial factor in us getting (or keeping) flying, which directly affects my quality of life. I almost never help with bags, but I'm definately not going to fault someone for doing so as long as they understand the risks.

LOL, how frail does one have to be to get severely injured lifting a bag? :cwm27:

Seriously? That's spoken like someone who's never done repetitive lifting as part of their job. My ground instructor at Eagle--who was a pretty scary Vietnam vet, certainly not "frail"--told us our first day to be extremely careful throwing our flight cases in their spots in the cockpit. He'd hurt himself doing so, but maybe he was just a lot more frail than you. It's all in how you lift, but in the confines of an airplane it's easy to lift something the wrong way.

 

[WacoFan]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

People would be surprised at how little it actually takes to hurt yourself, particularly your back. Weight of the object isn't always the issue, because with lighter weight things you can potentially move faster when slinging the bag...which would make an injury potentially worse if you twist the wrong way or are off-balance somehow. Lots of variables can go into an injury.

 

[derg]

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

LOL, how frail does one have to be to get severely injured lifting a bag? :cwm27:

I would have more respect for someone simply saying they aren't paid to do that, and so won't do it.

Or get his finger cut off while adjusting his seat in the cockpit?

Or have a back injury lifting a passenger's back in excess of 40 lbs?

Or get run over and killed by a de-ice truck?

Or have back problems stemming from storing a flight kit in the cockpit?

Or contract malaria?

Or have a hard landing break a vertebrae?

Run into by a catering truck on the ramp and killed?

Viral meningitis?

Food poisoning?

People get injured and/or killed in the airline business far more often than many people think. Except for not personally knowing the people killed on the ramp, the above are just a small sampling of what happened to people that I know personally.

Not urban legend.

Getting hurt is pretty darned easy.