Pilots Loading Bags? Good or bad...

re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Not saying Pilots should throw bags, However, I spent 18 years in transportation, and working for a company that shut down (18,000 jobs GONE) and then going to work for the (now, after the largest just went down) largest carrier in the country and they will be out of business within the next two years(another (20k jobs gone)!!! If I had a nickel for every time I heard "It's not my job".

Before someone tells me I need decades of experience...I have it! I was also a job Steward. I know the union has become a place for the lazy to hide.

It's not just aviation, it's our nation as a whole. My wife in the corp. world hears it all day...NOT MY JOB... as the company hands out pink slips on a regular basis. which interestingly enough My wife seems to be secure, and has even been given raises over the last few years while large numbers have been cut. My wife also goes above and beyond to serve her customers.

I love the "what if i get hurt" reasoning. Unless work comp rules have changed, it does not matter what you are doing. If you are ON DUTY you could fall down because you were picking your nose, and work comp would cover you. If they deny it, any laywer with a pulse could get it for you.
Our company would try to fight work comp claims, even legitimate ones...sad, but true. the question is why? Well, as a job steward I knew why because I would see what was going on. I watched a guy put the bar of soap he "slipped" on, on the floor, or the guy you punched the glass that cut him, because he was mad. It became the lottery for these guys. They all shared the name and number to the lawyer who would "work with them".

Our country has let most of our jobs slip through our hands. we like to tell each other its because the Chinese, or the Mexicans do it for less money. NO, it’s because they do it, how many of you have heard someone talk about how they get away with not working, while at work! We are no longer a country that produces anything. All we have now is SERVICE! If we don’t start offering better service what will we have then?

How many times have you heard If you do______ Crew Scheduling will not be able to make you work.
Is that what you said you would do in the interview?

I know management is just as screwed up as everyone else. the question is where does the buck stop. As an individual we each have to man up and answer for ourselves. Are we doing our part to service our customer?
If you are just doing what you have to and no more because its not your job. Or you are the one who tries to find ways not to work, you are working yourself out of a job.

The company I worked for. All the people would say, we have been in business 70 years we are not going out of business. Then one LABOR DAY we tried to go to work. Gates locked! Sure our management SUCKED! They wanted to put us out of business! Had the employees just done their job, and serviced their customers well, they would still be here in spite of the stupid management!
ok rant off.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Apples/ Oranges........nice try though. :rolleyes:
Not at all. Your argument is that you could become injured, unable to work and not compensated under worker's compensation insurance. Those activities listed present the same risk.

-mini
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

I love the "what if i get hurt" reasoning. Unless work comp rules have changed, it does not matter what you are doing. If you are ON DUTY you could fall down because you were picking your nose, and work comp would cover you.
They haven't changed, but let's not fight fear with facts.

-mini
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Not at all. Your argument is that you could become injured, unable to work and not compensated under worker's compensation insurance. Those activities listed present the same risk.

-mini

The oranges part comes in play in indicating which environment those risks you listed are undertaken - not at work.

We all should know that any risks we take away from work are not going to be compensated under work's compensation.

Those risks, which are outside of our job description, if injured, will also not be compensated for under workers compensation.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Those risks, which are outside of our job description, if injured, will also not be compensated for under workers compensation.
Who started this rumor?

I guess the more appropriate question is "in which states is it legal to deny compensation when someone is working and becomes injured (and isn't being negligent or involved in a criminal act)?"

That's a new one...I've seen the argument here before, but never saw that in any insurance policy.

-mini
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Who started this rumor?

I guess the more appropriate question is "in which states is it legal to deny compensation when someone is working and becomes injured (and isn't being negligent or involved in a criminal act)?"

That's a new one...I've seen the argument here before, but never saw that in any insurance policy.

-mini

So you've never known that companies can challenge (via hearings) a workers' compensation claim?

Claims have been overturned by some panels after a company indicates that the employee was undertaking a task not associated with his/her primary job duties.

If it was a myth, we wouldn't have all these TV lawyers asking for you to call their 1800 number to have your workers compensation denial reversed.

You won't see it in any insurance policy of course, as health insurance policies provide health care no matter where you become ill or injured.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Thorw your back out slinging bags, hobble into the cockpit, slam a landing down...problem solved. :sarcasm:
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Pilots at Skywest do that almost everyday when they see the rampers are busy and I'm doing the carry-on bags myself. Friends I have at other airlines gawk at this and say its stupid because you aren't compensated for it. Guess what, neither are gate agents. But we do what we need to do to get our flights out ontime.

I completely disagree with this. The more you "help out" and do things that aren't your job the more reason the airline has to fire people or leave the unemployed unemployed. Im sure there is someone at home that would love to be throwing bags but because Skywest guys are out there throwing bags that won't happen.

As for Allegiant, I know a couple Captains over there and they love it. They realize the pay isn't great but their QOL is leaps and bounds beyond what it would be if they were at another major. I understand ATNs argument but just like with any industry there are more things than what union you have and how much money you make.


Honda has a manufacturing plant in Marysville Ohio, I don't think their factory workers are union nor are the compensated as much as GM up in Michigan. With ATNs mindset they should all move up to Michigan and go work for a failing company because their pay is better and they have union representation. Sometimes there are more important things than just Unions and Pay.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

If enough people start doing this pilot throwing bags trend it might be put into company ops manual or sneaked into the next contract! Especially with SKW not being Union. Jetblue anyone? Remember what happened to them?
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

If enough people start doing this pilot throwing bags trend it might be put into company ops manual or sneaked into the next contract! Especially with SKW not being Union. Jetblue anyone? Remember what happened to them?

What did happen to them?

Was it the great pay bump they received to fly the 190?
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Cinderella. That is all.

-mini

I'm with mini here, who are all these people getting injured?

Sounds like a lot of people grew up without a) a big brother/uncle b) fighting c) physical sports d) manhood downstairs.

There's inherent risk in everything we do in life, and to not to do one thing because lack of compensation if injured is a cop out.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

Lol, fail. Velo was an ass and rightfully deserved the boot. No place for people like him.
...but, but, but...he was the captain of the ALPA Cheerleading Squad.

So you've never known that companies can challenge (via hearings) a workers' compensation claim?
Sure they can. Doesn't mean it's legal. That's why we have an appeal process.

If it was a myth, we wouldn't have all these TV lawyers asking for you to call their 1800 number to have your workers compensation denial reversed.
Right. Because the Attorneys know how the law works. Companies know how to exploit the law because they have teams of attorneys to take care of it. So you hire the guy that advertises during The Price is Right so you can have your claim denial legally reversed. That's the legal system at work.


You won't see it in any insurance policy of course, as health insurance policies provide health care no matter where you become ill or injured.
Who said anything about health insurance? I was talking about Worker's Compensation Insurance policies. We had one at our flight school. Another place I helped manage just paid the state's fund. You're more than welcome, as a business, to obtain an insurance policy for worker's comp. I never saw any language detailing that the injury had to be caused by performing duties consistent with a "job description". I was hoping maybe someone had some literature (a linkey?) I could look at stating the contrary.

Thorw your back out slinging bags, hobble into the cockpit, slam a landing down...problem solved. :sarcasm:
50 Gold Coins for creativity!

Sometimes there are more important things than just Unions and Pay.
Duck and cover!!!

I'm with mini here, who are all these people getting injured?
Things I learned recently at JC:


  • Farting within 50' of a Piston Engine causes it to implode and travel to the fifth dimension.
  • Looking at a bag on the ramp causes you to become disabled.
I become more smartester every day. :beer:

-mini
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

...but, but, but...he was the captain of the ALPA Cheerleading Squad.


Sure they can. Doesn't mean it's legal. That's why we have an appeal process.

Right. Because the Attorneys know how the law works. Companies know how to exploit the law because they have teams of attorneys to take care of it. So you hire the guy that advertises during The Price is Right so you can have your claim denial legally reversed. That's the legal system at work.


Who said anything about health insurance? I was talking about Worker's Compensation Insurance policies. We had one at our flight school. Another place I helped manage just paid the state's fund. You're more than welcome, as a business, to obtain an insurance policy for worker's comp. I never saw any language detailing that the injury had to be caused by performing duties consistent with a "job description". I was hoping maybe someone had some literature (a linkey?) I could look at stating the contrary.


50 Gold Coins for creativity!


Duck and cover!!!


Things I learned recently at JC:


  • Farting within 50' of a Piston Engine causes it to implode and travel to the fifth dimension.
  • Looking at a bag on the ramp causes you to become disabled.
I become more smartester every day. :beer:

-mini

Im not saying you will get hurt. If you can't lift a bag onto a conveyor belt then you probably shouldn't be flying an airliner. However we always bitch and moan about our crap pay yet some are all for doing something more and helping out the same management that continues to throw us all under the bus. You are also making someone in management look extremly smart when all the flights are still blocking out on time when they fired half the rampers.

If Im not paid to do it then I don't do it...

FUPM
 
Allegiant

Any news on these guys?? I see they are looking for FOs any info would be great. Thanks
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

What did happen to them?

Was it the great pay bump they received to fly the 190?

I jumpseated Jetblue a few weeks ago and the captain was saying that they have yet to see anything.
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

I think it is probably very poor form to speak of Velo when he isn't here to counter. This from a user that vehemently disagreed with him about user fees, choice of President, his views on GA as a whole, and his morphing of his political/union views into class warfare. We disagreed strongly on all of those issues and we sparred over them. Even at that, and the manner with which he came across, I never took any of it personally and if I had an aviation question in a thread he would answer that in a good manner...and then quickly rush back to the thread we were arguing about and bash me in a more abrasive manner there - and I was completely good with this.

The mods had their reasons I am sure (I missed the thread he got banned for), and that is how it should be, but two take aways on this: a) thicker skin is good and b) probably speaking ill of the banned is bad.

Of course, I am pretty sure Amber is going to be banning me soon...so part of this is self-damage control.

I agree with this, good points here.
 
Re: Allegiant

Any news on these guys?? I see they are looking for FOs any info would be great. Thanks

Hiring into a pool.

REQUIREMENTS & QUALIFICATIONS:
  • Airline Transport Pilot Certificate, Airplane Multiengine Land (AMEL).
  • Current Second Class Medical Certificate (must have current First Class Certificate when hired).
  • 3,000 flight hours (fixed wing), Jet and PIC time preferred.
  • All pilots must verify their flight time by logbooks.
  • The System Chief Pilot may waive the time requirements contained above if the candidate has other experience that would make him/her qualified for the position. All waivers will be in writing and will be placed in the pilot's permanent record. Education: High School diploma or equivalent; College preferred

    Experience: ATP Certificate; 3000 flight hours (fixed wing), Jet and PIC time preferred

    Knowledge: Basic Computer Skills;

    Working conditions: Aircraft/Airport environment

    Physical demands: Travel required
 
re: 121 pilots throw bags or no? (and some Allegiant stuff)

I love the "what if i get hurt" reasoning. Unless work comp rules have changed, it does not matter what you are doing. If you are ON DUTY you could fall down because you were picking your nose, and work comp would cover you. If they deny it, any laywer with a pulse could get it for you.
Our company would try to fight work comp claims, even legitimate ones...sad, but true. the question is why? Well, as a job steward I knew why because I would see what was going on. I watched a guy put the bar of soap he "slipped" on, on the floor, or the guy you punched the glass that cut him, because he was mad. It became the lottery for these guys. They all shared the name and number to the lawyer who would "work with them".

Keep in mind work comp rules and laws are different from one state to another. I would say 99% of the time you are right the insurance company will pay out but it will cost your company a lot more money in the long run.

I was a work comp auditor for a few years.

Here are some real world numbers for you to look at, I am going to use United in my example.
United has about 5,600 active pilots at about $150K a year the total payroll for pilots would be $840,000,000 (If you didn't know comp premiums are based on a % of total payroll for that code(job).
121 Pilots have a very low % code less then 2%.
121 ramp guys are in the 20% range.
As a auditor if even one pilot has a claim doing ramp work I am going to put all 5,600 pilots under the ramp code and hit them with a penalty and an a increase in premiums.

So yes the pilot will get paid, to bad it is going to cost the company a few hundred million.
 
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