Pilot to TSA: 'No Groping Me and No Naked Photos'

http://openjurist.org/482/f2d/893/united-states-v-davis

Interesting read on airport screening from 1973. Looks like the SC already deemed that airport screening wasn't a violation of the 4th amendment. For what it's worth of course... it was 1973 and the AIT machines hadn't been invented and the primary screening device was the metal detector. I'm excited to go to Sky Harbor on wednesday and watch the festivities.
 
Then read the original story posted above from the Boston Globe. Is that "hard news" enough?

Am I part of the conspiracy? 90-plus percent of my students were foreign nationals when I was a CFI! ;)

Should we conduct a raid at Transpac because they're training foreign nationals as well? :)
 
Am I part of the conspiracy? 90-plus percent of my students were foreign nationals when I was a CFI! ;)

Should we conduct a raid at Transpac because they're training foreign nationals as well? :)
Then I guessed you did not read the Globe article at all and missed all of it's points. (sigh)

"But the episode may have exposed problems in the Transportation Security Administration’s ability to make sure the only foreign students allowed to attend flight school are, as its website states, “properly checked, legal aliens.’’

That mandate stems from a 2004 order that TSA check all foreign flight students against terrorism, criminal and immigration databases after authorities discovered that several of the men who hijacked the airplanes used in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks had received flight training in the United States.

The arrests of 34 Brazilian nationals that began in July and concluded quietly last month raise troubling new questions about possible holes in the government’s antiterrorism security net, which bans illegal immigrants from taking flight lessons and requires background checks on any foreigner training to fly in the United States.

TSA has faced questions before about its effectiveness in carrying out the order. In 2008 ABC News reported that thousands of foreign nationals were obtaining pilot’s licenses without the proper paperwork.

Officials at TSA and the Federal Aviation Administration, which issues pilot’s licenses, could not explain this week why alleged illegal immigrants were allowed to take classes and obtain pilot’s licenses in Stow."

They were in this country illegally. Is this not clear?

"TSA officials said they are conducting a review of the circumstances by which the immigrants obtained pilot’s licenses. Officials would not say how many students received clearance to fly and how many ultimately obtained pilot’s licenses.


Kathryn Mattingly, a federal immigration court spokeswoman, said DeJesus (the owner of the flight school) was accused in July of being in the United States illegally. He is scheduled for a deportation hearing in Boston in February."

First, it's the story is not from a "hard news" source, which it clearly is. And now the content and it's valid points are being dismissed and not even understood/comprehended. Interesting. (just shakes head and gives the hell up)
 
I just don't see the relevance to the issue at hand at all.

Some people see a beautiful sunset and others may complain about the day being dreadfully short.

No one gets out of this world alive.
 
TSA at SLC and a young child.....

Not sure if this was posted yet, but the hits just keep coming....


[YT]XSQTz1bccL4[/YT]
 
I just don't see the relevance to the issue at hand at all.
:banghead: (sigh) He answered your question and provided "Hard" news sources. Whats your problem? First you accuse him of digging this info out of a blog when we have all seen it on mainstream news everyday, then you challenge him to provide "real" news proving his points. Then when he does this, you just say, "Ah, so what, who cares, doesn't matter."
 
And now for something completely different: humour where it's needed

http://blog.seattlepi.com/jacklewis/archives/228163.asp

And this:

NEW TSA SLOGANS

Grope discounts available.

Can't see London, can't see France, unless we see your underpants.

If we did our job any better, we'd have to buy you dinner first.

Only we know if Lady Gaga is really a lady.

Don't worry, my hands are still warm from the last guy.

Throw a few back at the airport Chili's and you won't even notice.

Wanna fly? Drop your fly.

We are now free to move about your pants

We rub you the wrong way, so you can be on your way.

It's not a grope. It's a freedom pat.

When in doubt, we make you whip it out.

TSA: Touchin', Squeezin', Arrestin'

You were a virgin.

We handle more packages than the USPS

The TSA isn't silly, they just want to inspect your willy

Stroke of the hand, law of the land

No Shirt, No Shoes, No Problem

Let your fingers do the Walking

Cough

Reach out and touch someone

Can you feel me now?

When we're done with you, you'll need a cigarette
 
:banghead: (sigh) He answered your question and provided "Hard" news sources. Whats your problem? First you accuse him of digging this info out of a blog when we have all seen it on mainstream news everyday, then you challenge him to provide "real" news proving his points. Then when he does this, you just say, "Ah, so what, who cares, doesn't matter."

Boston Globe, sure, but Infowars.com? :) Have a peek around the website. And yeah, I'm kind of a 'throw out the baby with the bathwater'-type when it comes to media source credibility.

I appreciate your fervor, but come on now, brotha!

Two points, my "aww who cares" largely comes from a few tustles with the 9/11 "truthers" a few years ago. Ok, let's talk science, but when the sources start coming out to super hyperbolic statements and a preponderance of the sources are specious websites (in this case, infowars and judicialwatch), as much as they look and feel on par with 'real news' websites, I'm just not going to give the 'blogger in a basement' the same sort of relevance than I would a article written by a journalist from a newsroom that may have to defend it's credibility.

An online "National Enquirer" basement blogger of sorts may get the occasional scoop from time to time, but it doesn't mean that their article on how Martians infiltrated the state lottery board has any more credibility.

When those stories are fact checked* and reported by an invesetigative journalist willing to put his credibility on the line, I'll move it from the over-dramatic hyperbole pile. I'm just tired of being compelled to set my hair afire every morning when I check my inbox.


* Not necessarily cross-referenced to a dozen other websites, but names, first-person sources, verified, etc.
 
Doug, again, which I have made clear on here now three times, the original story came from the Boston Globe! Other sources (and yes those included about three dozen various blogs) then picked it up and reported the gist of the story. So what? Blogs use legit news sources every day. Does that make the original news source less worthy? I also posted that ABC News investigated and reported many similar incidents back in 2008 regarding the TSA, which you also ignored. This was also on other media sources. In fact it was on several networks on tv. Do I need to cite all of them to satisfy you?

9/11 truthers??? WTF? I am certainly no 9/11 truther and wth does that have to do with anything I have posted here? You keep ranting about blogs for some reason but ignoring the Boston Globe article and the ABC article and dismissing them for some reason. Facts are facts and I guess the direct quotes from Ann Davis from the TSA, Laura J. Brown from the FAA, Kathryn Mattingly and William Joyce, et al are meaningless then. Really, your stance on this issue is becoming more ridiculous by the moment, and it doesn't even make sense. Get off the "blog" rant and recognize what ABC and the Boston Globe have written about and investigated here. THAT is the point and the only point. What you choose to believe and choose to ignore is your personal issue, however.

Your "In Box"???? Again you keep making references and comments that have nothing whatsoever to do with this thread and what I have posted. I have never sent you a pm or an email. I don't even understand what you are talking about, frankly. You have gone from aliens to the lottery to sunsets to 9/11 truthers and still have deflected and missed the point and what has been reported by legit new sources. You keep trying to turn the focus on "blogs" to somehow dismiss the truth and the facts. Bizarre. Really bizarre. Whatever floats your boat. Good grief.
 
Then why get worked up about his disbelief?
I could care less what he chooses to believe or not to believe. It's the issue that he keeps ignoring the legit news sources that he demanded for proof and keeps ranting about blogs and other really bizarre subjects that have nothing to do with what I have posted here, to somehow discredit myself or the facts. I find that really strange behavior. I am not worked up either, just amazed. lol
 
I'm a natural skeptic! A "Doubting Thomas" if you will.

Phone rings and a person says, "It's the best thing ever! Forbes ranked us #1!"

My first question is "Who, Jim Forbes? Steve Forbes? Forbes Magazine? Forbz.cz?"

Dude, I'm an internet webmaster. Skepticism is part of the game and nothing to get so upset about.

It's my job.
 
I just don't see the relevance to the issue at hand at all.

Define the issue, and what do you see as being irrelevant?

The issue, to put it succinctly, is if there is any limitation to the powers of the TSA to search, question, and detain the public without probable cause, exigent circumstances, or a warrant.

The examples of TSA behavior so far seem credible enough, as they are consistent with my own experience and observations.

So there can be no question of bias or integrity in reporting, here's a primary source we can accept to be true:

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/TSA.Switzer_Decl_attachments_1_2_and_3_0.pdf

The TSA's own policy seems to state that they will comply with the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. Specifically, that once someone consents to a search, they may not revoke that consent. However, I do not think that if a secondary search is requested, and the subject of the search does not give consent, I can see any legal basis for such a search to be conducted anyway. The TSA's position is that once the "screening process" has begun, consent is implied for any search they see fit, of anything they want.

One question I can not find an answer to is if travelers are compelled to be questioned if detained.

The TSA's argument that a terrorist may escape if they are not compelled to a search is incredulous. The TSA's mandate is to prevent hazards from being brought aboard aircraft, which in the case of someone refusing a search, has already been accomplished. The government can not use the fact that one does not consent to a search as reason to justify additional searches anywhere else that I am aware of, and doubtlessly, this has meant that criminals and terrorists have evaded detection in the past.

Keep in mind, these TSA policies are not limited to airports - that is just where they are most common. The TSA claims these powers at all transportation facilities - train stations, bus stops, trains, car ferries, etc.
 
Well, if people are so mad and against the screening procedures, it didn't seem to show today. National "opt out" day appears to have flopped.
 
scanners wern't being used, therefore you don't have the option to opt out. Then the TSA can truthfully say that people were not opting out en masse, and that these grassroots campaigns don't work, because people weren't opting out. (but they don't tell you that they were scared of the potential PR, so they shut the things off anyway so people couldnt opt out)
 
scanners wern't being used, therefore you don't have the option to opt out. Then the TSA can truthfully say that people were not opting out en masse, and that these grassroots campaigns don't work, because people weren't opting out. (but they don't tell you that they were scared of the potential PR, so they shut the things off anyway so people couldnt opt out)

Them deactivating them is a win for us. They're quite obviously scared of the public backlash. :)
 
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