Pilot to TSA: 'No Groping Me and No Naked Photos'

[A Life Aloft]

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/21/tsa-makes-little-boy-remove-shirt-during-pat-down/

"A disturbing video surfaced on Friday night showing what appears to be a TSA agent strip searching a young boy, with his father standing nearby. The video, which was uploaded to Youtube by user lukemtait, was filmed while a boy was randomly selected to undergo a random security check.

The video’s description read, “Lets get the facts straight first. Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn’t set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn’t complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn’t end up being enough for the guy. You will see the boy backing away when his genital region is touched by the TSA agent! I was about 30 ft away so I couldn’t hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.”

Enough is enough. I would never ever allow my children (who are now adults) to be groped in public or in private by any strangers and have their clothing removed and their privates felt up. I will not allow this to happen to my grandchildren. I have already let my sons and daughter know that I will fly them myself to whatever destinations they need to go to, and if it's far enough away, we will hire a private jet. I don't care what the hell the cost is. I will not subject them to this humiliation and trauma. Ever! Children should not think or be taught that it is ok for adult strangers to touch them and their privates!!!!

What the hell has happened to our rights and freedoms? When the elderly, the disabled, women who have survived breast cancer and small children are now subjected to this b.s.?

Interesting that a TSA employee at BOS was arrested in March of this year. Sean Shanahan, who was employed there, and allowed to pat down passengers (including children!!!), had been charged with multiple child sex crimes targeting an underage girl.

Let's see Obama's own daughters suffer this type of needless, invasive search.

From AirSafe Nov.3, 2010

Last Thursday, without much fanfare, TSA announced that it would start a new screening procedure that would include more pat-down searches nationwide. USA Today reports that in the new procedures, screeners' hands would slide over a passenger's body, requiring screeners to touch passengers' breasts and genitals. In addition to questions over whether this change is necessary or effective, another question that many passengers may have in the backs of their minds is whether the TSA screeners have a criminal background that should preclude them from such sensitive duties.

Possible reasons for the new procedures
There is some debate over whether these procedures are either useful or necessary. There are certainly threats to airliners from bombs that could be carried on a person's body, such as the bomb used in the unsuccessful bombing attempt on a Delta airliner last December. However, it is not at all clear that this new pat-down procedure would have found that explosive device.

The more recent incident involving two bombs sent as cargo from Yemen to the US could indicate renewed efforts to target US airliners. However, there has been no public acknowledgement by the TSA, the US government, or any other government that there is any increased threat to air travel from bombs hidden beneath clothing. Certainly the new pat-down procedure is a very public and very noticeable increase in security, but not one that is directly linked to any immediate threat.

TSA employees with faulty criminal background checks
The TSA serves a very important and vital role in airline security, and all of their employees are required to pass security and background checks. However, those checks in the past have been less than thorough. For example, in 2004, the Department of Homeland Security (which includes TSA) released a report that stated that TSA had allowed some screeners to perform their duties before their criminal background checks were complete, and allowed others to continue working while problems with their background checks were resolved. Even if this problem no longer exists for current applicants and employees, a more serious problem may be that the current system of background checks may have allowed those convicted of rape and other sexually based offenses to join TSA.

Are current TSA background checks too limited?
The 2004 DHS report stated that federal regulations (49 CFR. § 1542.209) specified were 28 kinds of felony convictions that would have disqualified an applicant for a TSA screener position, including rapes or crimes involving aggravated sexual abuse, but only if those convictions had occurred in the previous 10 years. It implies that a person convicted of rape, attempted, child molestation, or similar crimes may not be required to report such convictions during their background check and may be allowed to perform pat-down searches on passengers.

It is unclear if TSA has changed its background check requirements since 2004 to exclude any convicted sex offenders from working directly with passengers. However, the fact that in the past it may have been possible that someone with that kind of criminal past may be a TSA screener may concern most passengers.

Are convicted rapists performing pat-down searches?

The full details of the the TSA's process for reviewing current and potential employees is not available to the public. Whatever those procedures are, a reasonable passenger would agree that anyone who has been found guilty of any crime that involves rape or some similar criminal act should not be allowed to search passengers. If the TSA could publicly address the following questions, it may go a long way toward reducing the public's concern over the new pat-down procedures:

• Are there any current TSA employees who are convicted sex offenders (either for a felony or lesser crime, either as an adult of juvenile), even if the conviction occurred more than 10 years before joining TSA?
• If the answer to the first question is yes, are any of these employees acting as security screeners who have have to have direct physical contact with the flying public?
• If the answer to the first question is no, have all TSA employees, as part of their background check, been asked if they have been convicted of rape or some other sexually based crime, whether it were a felony or lesser crime, either as an adult or as a juvenile, even if the conviction occurred more than 10 years before joining TSA?
• If the first question can't be answered for a TSA employee because of inadequate information, would this employee be restricted from working in a position that involves direct physical contact with the flying public?
• Are TSA security screeners who are convicted of rape or another sexually based crime, no matter how minor, immediately removed from any position where they may have physical contact with the traveling public?

 

[A Life Aloft]

BTW,
But it gets worse – not only is the TSA employing pedophiles to grope your kids, the agency is giving the green light to illegal aliens to work in airport cargo security and also to fly planes.

The same background check that allowed rapists to slip through the net also enabled illegal immigrants from Central America and Mexico to work in security at Stewart International Airport, a 2,400-acre facility located about 60 miles north of New York City.
Noting that the fiasco was “par for the course for the TSA,” Judicial Watch reported that “The illegal aliens all had security badges approved by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the agency created after the 2001 terrorist attacks mainly to protect airlines. The TSA’s national background check failed to detect the fake Social Security numbers and other bogus documents provided by the illegal immigrants to obtain clearance.”

Just this week Judicial Watch also reported on how the TSA approved flight training for illegal aliens.
“At a flight school in Stow, a rural community about 25 miles west of Boston, more than 30 illegal aliens were cleared by the TSA to train as pilots. This week three of them said they came to the U.S. from Brazil legally but their visas expired, just like several of the 9/11 hijackers. Each man provided official TSA documents approving pilot lessons through the agency’s alien flight student program. The Brazilians assure the agency never asked them about their immigration status.”

The TSA’s claim that it is sexually molesting Americans in the name of security is proven completely fraudulent given the fact that the agency concurrently opens the door for illegal aliens to access sensitive areas of airports while training them how to fly airliners.

 

[MikeD]

What the hell has happened to our rights and freedoms? When the elderly, the disabled, women who have survived breast cancer and small children are now subjected to this b.s.?

Funny people should ask this question now.....where the hell were they immediately post-9/11 when they were demanding something, anything, for airport security so that they could "feel safe" when flying. What did the idiot public get? The TSA. And the TSA is nearly 10 years old. People have been getting treated like prisoners checking into prison for that long and only now they are complaining about it? Hey American public, you got what you were asking for with the TSA. You knew that airport security hadn't failed in 9/11 fairly soon after the details of the hijackings were known, yet you allowed the government to create another bureaucracy called the DHS, and its tenant, the TSA, and allowed it to morph to what it has.

Calls for "where's our freedom gone?" Those calls should've been made over 9 years ago when the insanity of the "new airport security" was in its infancy, yet was clearly wrong. Your silence due to your wish to have government do something....anything....in the name of "security", got you what you have now. So if you want someone to blame Mr and Mrs American citizen, don't go after the TSA agent, go look in the mirror.

 

[Hacker15e]

FYour silence due to your wish to have government do something....anything....in the name of "security", got you what you have now. So if you want someone to blame Mr and Mrs American citizen, don't go after the TSA agent, go look in the mirror.

Despite that, at least there is now a groundswell of people at least *talking* about how things have gone too far.

Although it's entirely too late, IMHO, better late than never.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Funny people should ask this question now.....where the hell were they immediately post-9/11 when they were demanding something, anything, for airport security so that they could "feel safe" when flying. What did the idiot public get? The TSA. And the TSA is nearly 10 years old. People have been getting treated like prisoners checking into prison for that long and only now they are complaining about it? Hey American public, you got what you were asking for with the TSA. You knew that airport security hadn't failed in 9/11 fairly soon after the details of the hijackings were known, yet you allowed the government to create another bureaucracy called the DHS, and its tenant, the TSA, and allowed it to morph to what it has.

Calls for "where's our freedom gone?" Those calls should've been made over 9 years ago when the insanity of the "new airport security" was in its infancy, yet was clearly wrong. Your silence due to your wish to have government do something....anything....in the name of "security", got you what you have now. So if you want someone to blame Mr and Mrs American citizen, don't go after the TSA agent, go look in the mirror.

I and many others did speak up and have spoken up for many years actually. Who do you think has posted the dozen or so articles on these threads comparing our security methods to the methods used by EL Al? Who has posted the articles where their former head of security has stated why their security measures work and why ours do not? I hav e been saying this since 9/11!!! Who wrote and phoned ALPA and had many other pilots do the same? Who protested to their Carrier? Who had the FA's complaining and complaining to their union?? Who wrote about this on blogs and foums on the net? Some of us wrote articles in various publications on this issue. We did this and more only to have it mostly fall on deaf ears.

 

[MikeD]

I and many others did speak up and have spoken up for many years actually. Who do you think has posted the dozen or so articles on these threads comparing our security methods to the methods used by EL Al? Who has posted the articles where their former head of security has stated why their security measures work and why ours do not? I hav e been saying this since 9/11!!! Who wrote and phoned ALPA and had many other pilots do the same? Who protested to their Carrier? Who had the FA's complaining and complaining to their union?? Who wrote about this on blogs and foums on the net? Some of us wrote articles in various publications on this issue. We did this and more only to have it mostly fall on deaf ears.

Thats what I'm saying. For those who did speak out about the bad idea of the TSA oh so long ago, be it myself, other pilots, other industry members, etc; none of them were listened to. The American public demanded "security", and were willing to be treated like prisoners checking into San Quentin when going to the airport in order to "feel safe". 9 years later, all of a sudden its "too invasive" for them? They're (the flying public) the ones that asked for it, and they got exactly what they asked for, with 9 years of firm entrenchment too. Good luck toppling that bureaucracy.

You aren't my target Mr A-Life-Aloft, the American flying public is. They were warned a long time ago, and no one listened.

 

[A Life Aloft]

All this is a gross violation of Americans’ Fourth Amendment rights. It’s also demeaning and (intentionally) humiliating to air traverlers. In addition, the use of naked body scanners on children violates child porn laws.

The TSA, through its groping of passengers and the capturing of their naked body images, is guilty of committing numerous felony crimes. If a security guard at a grocery store, for example, groped little children with his fingers and took “naked body scanner” pictures of customers, he would be arrested as a sex crime offender. So why are we letting our own Federal Government commit sex crimes against us when we’d be thrown in prison for the same lewd behavior?
There are actually registered sex offenders on the books who have done far less than what the TSA is doing to air travelers right now.

The TSA, even more insidiously, doesn’t even tell passengers they have a choice to opt out of the naked body scanners. Even the opt-out process seems to be designed to bring humiliation to passengers, because once you announce you’re opting out of the naked body scanners, TSA agents yell, “Opt out! Opt out!” in order to draw attention to you. Then begins the scrurry of more of these goons to surround you. Following that, they now feel up your crotch and private parts with their fingers and palms.

The message is clear: Go through the naked body scanner or we will sexually molest you and your small children, your grandmother in a wheel chair, your husband with a prosthetic leg, your sister who has had any kind of breast surgery and this can be particularly traumatic for breast cancer victims, your Uncle who has had prostrate or testicular surgery and may have an implant, or any relative, child or adult who has ever been physically assaulted, especially sexual abuse victims will so enjoy this! We look at everyone as a terrorist now!

 

[A Life Aloft]

Thats what I'm saying. For those who did speak out about the bad idea of the TSA oh so long ago, be it myself, other pilots, other industry members, etc; none of them were listened to. The American public demanded "security", and were willing to be treated like prisoners checking into San Quentin when going to the airport in order to "feel safe". 9 years later, all of a sudden its "too invasive" for them? They're (the flying public) the ones that asked for it, and they got exactly what they asked for, with 9 years of firm entrenchment too. Good luck toppling that bureaucracy.

You aren't my target Mr A-Life-Aloft, the American flying public is. They were warned a long time ago, and no one listened.

I understand that, I am just in fed up and catching up on what has transpired over the last week. That's what happens when I finally get 10 hours of sleep and a day off from working. lol This latest b.s. with the TSA (our tax dollars and our marvelous government at work) and little children is just the last straw for me.

This happens with all of the freedoms that we used to enjoy as being Americans. It is what we as the "public" have allowed our elected Government to do to us over time. The people that we put in place and pay the salaries of. Each year, each month, each decade, we succumb and they chip away a little at a time at our personal lives, our freedoms, our choices, the way we live our lives and many people permit and allow and support this. They dictate what they believe we want, what we need and what we should eat, drive, do and how we should live. How much more to we give up? We send men and women to foreign nations to "fight for freedom" while we allow a tyranical government in our own country to chain us. By the People and For the People....since when? We thought we were protected. The Constitution and other founding documents make it plain that our rights precede government – they are inalienable. We thought we were free through our own pitiful efforts. We were and are not, apparently. Slavery leads inexorably to slavery under the yoke of some despotic government. History makes my case.

Every single day the federal government as well as state and local governments pass laws to make us a "safer society". As they make society "safer" they are slowly chewing away at our rights, liberties, and our personal freedoms. Where is the balance? Is a safe nerf ball society worth giving up our freedoms for. At what point do we tell the government that we would rather die than to become mindless government slaves? Where is the line between where our right to choose is more important than the government's right to impose their standards on us. Even if it's for our own good?

The government wants to regulate religion, sex, child discipline, marriage, and free speech. They want to control what you can post on the web, what your kids wear to school, where you can walk across the street, what you can watch in bars, what you can say at the office, where you can pray, who you have sex with, what kind of sex you have, what jokes you can tell, and if you can spank your children. Kids are expelled from schools for possession of nonprescription drugs and for wearing the American flag on their bikes or clothing! We now have law regulating damn near everything. Smokers can't even smoke outside.

The police can arrest you in your home without a warrent. The Division of Family Services can take your kids away. Teachers can no longer enforce discipline in the classroom. The courts tells you who you can have love and marry. And this is supposed to be America, the home of the brave and the land of the free. But what does it mean to be free?? To me, being free is the freedom to make my own decisions. I decide what I want to believe in.

There's no doubt that when people are free that bad things are going to happen to some people. If people are allowed to make choices then some people will make bad choices. When you have freedom and liberty, you have the freedom and liberty to screw up. You have the freedom to destroy your life. But would you rather be a mind slave to the government and have them control your life, or perhaps destroy your life for you? We as a people, have to be worthy of deserving freedom. We have to maintain it and defend it! If we allow freedom and liverty to slip away, a little at a time, then we are people who do not deserve to be free!

 

[Hacker15e]

the use of naked body scanners on children violates child porn laws.

Not to defend it, but what, specific, "child porn laws" do you believe the scanner images violate?

You may want to reference the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996 and Ashcroft v. the Free Speech Coalition for more reference on what content legally constitutes "child porn", and you'll see that recent case law does not support your position.

 

[SteveC]

I think that the new scanners and pat-downs are GREAT!

Keep up the good work guys!

 

[derg]

BTW,
But it gets worse – not only is the TSA employing pedophiles to grope your kids, the agency is giving the green light to illegal aliens to work in airport cargo security and also to fly planes.

What blog did you pick this up on?

 

[A Life Aloft]

Hacker, If someone is tried for kiddie porn offenses…but can demonstrate he did not take any pictures more invasive or revealing than a standard TSA scan, will he be acquitted? Is the TSA establishing a new norm for nudity and exploitation of children? Would an airport bathroom perv be arrested for photographing a child nude in an airport bathroom? “Just following orders” is not a valid excuse for crimes against basic decency. Where is it written that TSA agents are granted full immunity to photograph children nude in airports?

In the UK they are not scanning anyone under the age of 18 years old. http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/do-airport-body-scanners-break-child-porn-laws/19304088

Despite official assurances and media talking points that claim the naked body scanners now being implemented in airports worldwide do not show enough detail to be considered a violation of privacy, the true measure of how much of an intrusion they really are is proven by the fact that they break child pornography laws in the UK that bar the production of indecent images of children.​

Ministers in the UK will be forced to exempt under-18’s from the virtual strip searches or pass new legislation that protects airport workers from being prosecuted as pedophiles.​

“They also face demands from civil liberties groups for safeguards to ensure that images from the £80,000 scanners, including those of celebrities, do not end up on the internet".​

These scanners would not detect items that someone had ingested, nor placed in an orifice. You don't mind someone taking and seeing a naked view (detailed images of a child’s genitalia) of your son or daughter or your grandchildren then?

There is technology that exists and is used today that would project only a "stick figure" image of a passenger to a TSA screener and minimize any exposure to radiation. The technology known as "automated target recognition" is in use at Schiphol for example. They are also less expensive.

How far will Americans acquiesce in the name of "safety"?

A familiar tactic employed to convince the public that the scanners are necessary is the repeated use of images that show concealed weapons, creating the perception that everyone is guilty and needs to be scanned. This is reinforced by the public being made to hold their hands up when they enter the scanner in a symbolic act of submission, when holding their arms out horizontally would be no different.​

How much humiliation and degradation are we prepared to accept in the name of being protected from a menace that the government has proven time and again it has no motivation in stopping? The very people promoting the mass implementation of body scanners stand to reap the financial rewards because they are heavily invested in the technology.​

Are we going to allow those in positions of "power" enjoy naked images of our children or are we finally going to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough and start boycotting and filing lawsuits against airports and other institutions that attempt to ram through these revolting and dehumanizing measures?​

 

[A Life Aloft]

What blog did you pick this up on?

Type in the phrase into gooogle and see dozens of sources reporting this. AirSafe News for one and Judicial Watch http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/nov/tsa-clears-illegal-aliens-flight-training

and here

http://www.infowars.com/tsa-gives-rapists-and-illegals-the-green-light-while-groping-children/.

 

[darrenf]

What blog did you pick this up on?

I guessing here, since that is the page he quoted with no citation noted.
http://mnchange.org/airports-set-to-become-primary-peddlers-of-child-porn

 

[A Life Aloft]

I guessing here, since that is the page he quoted with no citation noted.
http://mnchange.org/airports-set-to-become-primary-peddlers-of-child-porn

I just cited the three sources I read above.

Nearly a decade after the nation's deadliest terrorist attack, “strict security controls” didn’t stop dozens of illegal immigrants from receiving government clearance to train as pilots in the U.S. just as the 9/11 hijackers had done.

The unbelievable story comes via a Massachusetts news station that exposes the government’s failure to adequately protect the nation since Middle Eastern terrorists, trained at American flight schools, crashed airplanes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. As a result of the 2001 massacre, the government supposedly implemented strict security measures to prevent undocumented foreigners from training at American flight schools.

Incredibly, illegal immigrants still get cleared to take flight lessons because the Homeland Security agency (Transportation Security Administration—TSA) that approves candidates doesn’t bother checking the central agency’s immigration database when it screens foreign flight-school applicants. That means flight schools throughout the U.S. could easily be filled with undocumented foreigners that could represent a national security threat.

At a flight school in Stow, a rural community about 25 miles west of Boston, more than 30 illegal aliens were cleared by the TSA to train as pilots. This week three of them said they came to the U.S. from Brazil legally but their visas expired, just like several of the 9/11 hijackers. Each man provided official TSA documents approving pilot lessons through the agency’s alien flight student program. The Brazilians assure the agency never asked them about their immigration status.

Now that they have flown for dozens of hours each, the government plans to deport them only because the media exposed the scandalous story. In a typical response for a government agency with egg on its face, TSA officials said they will “review the process” for clearing foreign nationals to become licensed pilots. In the meantime, the agency assures it performs a “thorough background check on each applicant.”

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/nov/tsa-clears-illegal-aliens-flight-training



Here is the original story from the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma.../flight_school_arrests_raise_terrorism_fears/

Flight school students arrested

Concerns raised on antiterror net; 34 immigrants allegedly illegal

By Maria Sacchetti
Globe Staff / November 5, 2010

Federal officials have arrested dozens of alleged illegal immigrants connected to a flight school in Stow, including the school’s owner and students who received US government clearance to train as pilots despite strict security controls put into place after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The arrests of 34 Brazilian nationals that began in July and concluded quietly last month raise troubling new questions about possible holes in the government’s antiterrorism security net, which bans illegal immigrants from taking flight lessons and requires background checks on any foreigner training to fly in the United States.

No link to terrorism has been found in connection with the Stow flight school, TJ Aviation Flight Academy at Minute Man Air Field, 30 miles northwest of Boston, US immigration officials said.

All the arrested immigrants, who were learning to fly small single-engine planes, are free pending deportation hearings in federal immigration court, immigration officials said.

But the episode may have exposed problems in the Transportation Security Administration’s ability to make sure the only foreign students allowed to attend flight school are, as its website states, “properly checked, legal aliens.’’

That mandate stems from a 2004 order that TSA check all foreign flight students against terrorism, criminal and immigration databases after authorities discovered that several of the men who hijacked the airplanes used in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks had received flight training in the United States.

TSA has faced questions before about its effectiveness in carrying out the order. In 2008 ABC News reported that thousands of foreign nationals were obtaining pilot’s licenses without the proper paperwork.

Officials at TSA and the Federal Aviation Administration, which issues pilot’s licenses, could not explain this week why alleged illegal immigrants were allowed to take classes and obtain pilot’s licenses in Stow.

TSA officials said they are conducting a review of the circumstances by which the immigrants obtained pilot’s licenses. Officials would not say how many students received clearance to fly and how many ultimately obtained pilot’s licenses.

However, TSA officials said they check the backgrounds of all foreign flight students and routinely check pilot’s licenses against terrorism watch lists.

“TSA performs a thorough background check on each applicant at the time of application to include terrorism and other watch list matching, criminal history, and checking for available disqualifying immigration information,’’ spokeswoman Ann Davis said in a statement. “There is currently a review ongoing into the circumstances by which these individuals were issued pilots’ licenses.’’

Among those arrested by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are the school’s owner, Thiago DeJesus, a 26-year-old Brazilian immigrant who holds a license to fly single-engine airplanes and who was charged in July with being in the United States illegally, federal officials said. DeJesus continued to give flying lessons this week.

FAA spokeswoman Laura J. Brown confirmed that DeJesus is a licensed pilot and flight instructor but would not comment on the fact that his school is still open because the agency is investigating what she called safety issues in connection with the school. She declined to elaborate.

“We have an ongoing investigation,’’ she said.

Thousands of foreign pilots train in the United States every year because of the high quality and relatively low cost.

Foreigners who wish to take flight lessons must first register online with TSA and provide biographical information that the agency uses to determine if they are on terrorism watch lists, have criminal histories, or any disqualifying immigration information. Students are also fingerprinted and pay a fee.

Most applicants come from outside the country, said TSA spokesman Greg Soule.

Soule said TSA checks immigration information when prospective students apply. The agency does not follow up in every case to ensure that those who take classes obtain the necessary immigration documents.

Students must also show their passports and visas to their flight instructor, who must keep copies on file. TSA inspectors conduct unannounced audits to ensure that the records are in order.

By contrast, the FAA does not have any responsibility for checking the immigration status of flight students or pilots, Brown said. The agency’s role is to ensure that pilots have completed proper training before they receive a pilot’s license, she said.

This week, TJ Aviation Flight Academy remained open for business, teaching students on Cessna and other single-engine airplanes at the air field off a quiet country road in this small town of about 6,000 people.

DeJesus, owner of TJ Aviation, denied in an interview that he is in the country illegally. He said he came to the country at age 16 from southern Brazil and is a legal resident. He declined to provide proof of residency.

Kathryn Mattingly, a federal immigration court spokeswoman, said DeJesus was accused in July of being in the United States illegally. He is scheduled for a deportation hearing in Boston in February.

FAA records show that DeJesus has a valid pilot’s license to fly single-engine airplanes and to teach flying. He registered TJ Aviation Inc. with the Massachusetts secretary of state in 2008 and said he has been teaching flying for two years.

DeJesus said that all of his foreign students obtained TSA approval before he allowed them to take classes, as the law requires, and that he did not know that they were in the country illegally. The students paid $165 an hour for the lessons, he said.

“It’s something that [TSA] approved in the first place,’’ said DeJesus. “Every student that we had went to the TSA, and TSA approved them.’’

Last month, he said, the TSA sent him an e-mail revoking approval for many of the students. Around the same time, he said, federal immigration agents arrested many of those same students for deportation.

He said he had followed the rules and pointed out that federal officials have allowed his flight school to remain open.

“You think if we did something wrong, we’d still be open as a flight school?’’ he asked.

He said many students hope to earn their pilot’s licenses to get better jobs in their native Brazil.

“In Brazil, being a pilot is almost like being a doctor,’’ said DeJesus, who speaks fluent English. “These are honest people. . . . They just want a better future.’’

William Joyce, a Boston-based immigration lawyer who is representing a few of TJ Aviation’s former students, said many of his clients felt betrayed by DeJesus. He said they wanted to take flying lessons but did not realize that they would be exposed to immigration checks. The assumption is perhaps naive, he said, since illegal immigrants are not even eligible for driver’s licenses in Massachusetts.

“All I know is this: these people are in big trouble,’’ Joyce said.

 

[derg]

Type in the phrase into gooogle and see dozens of sources reporting this. AirSafe News for one and Judicial Watch http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/nov/tsa-clears-illegal-aliens-flight-training

and here

http://www.infowars.com/tsa-gives-rapists-and-illegals-the-green-light-while-groping-children/.

I'm more of a "hard news" person rather than a "I heard it on an internet blog" type.

I appreciate your passion, don't get me wrong, but once we run off the road into internet blog hyperbole, we lose credibility when addressing real-world topics.

Remember the "$200 million a day on the president's Asia trip" blog-o-rama?

 

[Hacker15e]

Hacker, If someone is tried for kiddie porn offenses…

So, in short, you don't know the answer to the question I posed.

I'll draw it out for you: depictions of naked children are not "child pornography" on prima facie value because they do not depict (or even imply) any type of sexual activity.

While I understand and relate to your opposition to the nature of the images produced by the body scanners, it's disingenuous to make sweeping statements like "they violate child porn laws" when (in the absence of some future actual precedent-setting case decision) they do not when objectively evaluated against current law and precedent. If you know something specific in federal law (or even state law, for that matter) that backs your point, I'm interested to see it.

Again, not to disagree with your point -- I think both the pat-downs and the body scanners are violations of the 4th Amendment -- but the manner in which you argue your point also matters, and making incorrect statements does nothing to bolster your argument.

 

[A Life Aloft]

I'm more of a "hard news" person rather than a "I heard it on an internet blog" type.

I appreciate your passion, don't get me wrong, but once we run off the road into internet blog hyperbole, we lose credibility when addressing real-world topics.

Remember the "$200 million a day on the president's Asia trip" blog-o-rama?

Then read the original story posted above from the Boston Globe. Is that "hard news" enough?

 

[A Life Aloft]

So, in short, you don't know the answer to the question I posed.

I'll draw it out for you: depictions of naked children are not "child pornography" on prima facie value because they do not depict (or even imply) any type of sexual activity.

While I understand and relate to your opposition to the nature of the images produced by the body scanners, it's disingenuous to make sweeping statements like "they violate child porn laws" when (in the absence of some future actual precedent-setting case decision) they do not when objectively evaluated against current law and precedent. If you know something specific in federal law (or even state law, for that matter) that backs your point, I'm interested to see it.

Again, not to disagree with your point -- I think both the pat-downs and the body scanners are violations of the 4th Amendment -- but the manner in which you argue your point also matters, and making incorrect statements does nothing to bolster your argument.

I am not an attorney. I feel pretty emotional about this subject, so that is my flaw. But I have raised several questions that perhaps the courts and attorneys will answer and will have to answer very soon. I cited the laws in the UK and what this has caused now with the new scanners. I also believe that naked images of our children and grandchildren should not be able to be viewed by any unknown adult, even a government employee. I am not talking about the photos we have all taken of our kids in the tub or the pool or while they were babies and we washed them either. This will be for the courts to hash out and I believe that there will be lawsuits filed over this. I have found government intrusion on my personal privacy and on those I love, to say "Enough is enough"! The government has lied about how the scanners work, including an early claim, later refuted ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muYh8d70yow watch this video) that the images couldn't be saved or shared. And now reputable scientists and doctors are questioning the safety and radiation exposure of these scanners.

The uproar, which is absolutely legitimate, has more to do with people's realization that this invasion of privacy is going to affect them and their children and grandchildren in more direct ways than they've contemplated before. Consider: The scanner images of children would qualify as child porn in other circumstances; and the new "enhanced pat-down" procedures, outside of a prison, doctor's office or your bedroom, would leave the groper liable for prosecution, especially when the gropee is a kid!

People who are/were normally the first to endorse any level of privacy invasion in the name of security are starting to recognize that that the TSA's version is more in the category of what real experts call "security theater".

"Unreasonable searches and seizures" in the 4th Amendment, and now look what we have.

 

[A Life Aloft]

What blog did you pick this up on?

And here is the article from ABC back in 2008, and what they uncovered in this two page article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4353991&page=1

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4353991&page=2