Pilatus with 7 Aboard Down Off The Coast of NC

Bob Ridpath said:
Different venue, but I've been in a couple situations that might have turned south o'er the years, one was primary search in a house fire and the other going after someone in a flooding condition. Now there were other times the "limit" was tested, but competent partners and aware back-up were the things which got me, and one victim, out of hard ... impossible ... situations.

I don't play the game any longer at almost 70, but looking back I'm pretty sure I'd make the same choices again.

Seems like this guy was alone and overwhelmed - in well-above his level of ability - and there was no one there to help him find a way out.

The CVR is a hard read, even for a layman.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems pretty shocking. Like he was in over his head from the word go and instead of flying the airplane, he just shut down and freaked out. Almost like he wasn't capable of hand flying it and was dependent on the automation.
 
Worse MVA I ever attended personally had five dead - three teens, a mom and child. Did some PTSD stuff debriefing at an MCI with seven dead - wrong way driver, drunk on the TSP who managed to kill herself, another adult, and a bunch of kids, and had the privilege of speaking to a number of first responders in the same way after the Newtown, CT school shooting.

Trauma heals, at best, over years. The most anyone can do after the fact isn't really healing but, at best, management of the pain in the moment. Lots of grief involved with this particular flight, and lives changed.

The memories come unbidden at odd times and the triggers are unexpected.
 
gliderboy said:
Accidents such as this happen with depressing regularity among amateur pilots. Terrified of having to hand-fly the plane on instruments in bad weather they habitually rely on the autopilot, further degrading their already mediocre instrument-flying skills. When the AP fails or, as in this case, isn't set up properly, they panic, start pusing random buttons and lose control of the aircraft.
Click to expand...
FTFY.
 
Circling back to this one, sorry for the necropost. Been waiting for more to come out. I was on the Pilatus for two years; I guess it felt more personal.

The Apex is a pretty good product once you get it figured out, but it's a steep learning curve.

The last page is going to keep me awake tonight. This one gets to me.
 
notapilot said:

NTSB Docket - Docket Management System

data.ntsb.gov data.ntsb.gov

New information with complete cockpit transposition from the voice recorder. I'm not a pilot but this hit close to home so I am interested on what happened.

I'm not a pilot but it is obvious a lack of pre flight route planning caused major issues. They tried to enter the route while airborne and when they couldn't get the nav system to work like they wanted it resulted in a lot of confusion and 'flying by the seat of your pants' He even admits in the transcript he is way behind the 8 ball as he put it.

I am having a little bit of a problem figuring out the last 3 minutes or so. They go into an ascent and get into stall condition but it isn't really clear to me why so I came here to get some expert opinions. Could it be while climbing to 1900 he wasn't paying attention and the plane kept ascending and got into a runaway trim scenario? Or he became disoriented and panicked?

The transcript is a tough read and this accident seems 100% avoidable. They do note he appeared to have a cold or something and back pain so maybe those factors combined and somehow clouded his judgement. Just seems an awfully unorganized flight plan for someone with that experience. Maybe it was just complacency.

Looking forward to reading your opinions!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your interest and curiosity. You might not be a pilot, but even without any "pilot training", just your interest and curiosity would likely make you a better pilot than most entering the "profession" these days.

Keep on caring about stuff, even beyond the "news cycle". Keep on asking questions and trying to answer them.
 
Wardogg said:
From reading that cvr I would never know that either of them had ever flown an NG before. That was beyond confusion. That Honeywell Apex system is a little counterintuitive but once you figure out the particulars its not a bad system.
Click to expand...
It's a great system... except for the video-game-esque "track ball". That nonsense will hang you and drown you like a witch in Salem.
 
I think I have read almost every NTSB report on a 121 jet accident out there. If anyone hasn't, it is worth your time. There are some wild ones. Most of them I hope I could have easily avoided, but there are a few that are just what they were......there but for the grace of god go I. AA191, UAL232, AS261, and of course 9/11 (which aren't included in NTSB files)
 
///AMG said:
I think I have read almost every NTSB report on a 121 jet accident out there. If anyone hasn't, it is worth your time. There are some wild ones. Most of them I hope I could have easily avoided, but there are a few that are just what they were......there but for the grace of god go I. AA191, UAL232, AS261, and of course 9/11 (which aren't included in NTSB files)
Click to expand...

Not in this country, but the SAS MD80 out of Linate was terrible. Low vis and this crew did everything right. A Corpie came in front of them near V1 and that was that.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Not in this country, but the SAS MD80 out of Linate was terrible. Low vis and this crew did everything right. A Corpie came in front of them near V1 and that was that.
Click to expand...
The Mayday episode mentioned the ground markings in LIN being terrible but didn't really elaborate on the past attempts to address that beyond the airport having previously failed some safety audits for non-standard and ineffective markings. The longer story is that Alitalia's MXP long-haul hub used to operate out of LIN (you can imagine how congested it was with 747s and stuff), as did other international carriers while MXP was mostly cargo and off-schedule\low-cost flights. The markings and signage were due to be upgraded but kicked to the curb when Alitalia first swapped over to MXP and most other carriers followed. As Italian carriers then made up the vast majority of ops at LIN after the move (it remained Alitalia's EU hub) and the other EU trunk carriers who kept LIN flights usually only had a few flights per day, the Italian authorities just kicked the can down the road. In the 1990s, Alitalia temporarily moved its international ops back to LIN, and suddenly the national carrier had issues with LIN again and demanded upgrades. But when Alitalia decided after several months to move back to MXP a 2nd time, the can was kicked down the road again, which set the stage for the SAS crash.

Oddly enough, in response to the crash, LIN shut down the dedicated GA runway which was alongside all the GA parking on the West-side of the airfield, turning it into a taxiway. I thought it was really weird to respond to a GA/airliner fatal collision by shutting down the dedicated GA runway. I think the idea was that it would limit GA traffic to LIN, but satellite photos show the GA traffic continued to grow regardless.
 
ChasenSFO said:
The Mayday episode mentioned the ground markings in LIN being terrible but didn't really elaborate on the past attempts to address that beyond the airport having previously failed some safety audits for non-standard and ineffective markings. The longer story is that Alitalia's MXP long-haul hub used to operate out of LIN (you can imagine how congested it was with 747s and stuff), as did other international carriers while MXP was mostly cargo and off-schedule\low-cost flights. The markings and signage were due to be upgraded but kicked to the curb when Alitalia first swapped over to MXP and most other carriers followed. As Italian carriers then made up the vast majority of ops at LIN after the move (it remained Alitalia's EU hub) and the other EU trunk carriers who kept LIN flights usually only had a few flights per day, the Italian authorities just kicked the can down the road. In the 1990s, Alitalia temporarily moved its international ops back to LIN, and suddenly the national carrier had issues with LIN again and demanded upgrades. But when Alitalia decided after several months to move back to MXP a 2nd time, the can was kicked down the road again, which set the stage for the SAS crash.

Oddly enough, in response to the crash, LIN shut down the dedicated GA runway which was alongside all the GA parking on the West-side of the airfield, turning it into a taxiway. I thought it was really weird to respond to a GA/airliner fatal collision by shutting down the dedicated GA runway. I think the idea was that it would limit GA traffic to LIN, but satellite photos show the GA traffic continued to grow regardless.
Click to expand...
Good write-up, thanks.

Sure beats a one-line comment that implies another flight crew may have been at fault for flying at a take-off speed (wut?). :mad:
 
SteveC said:
Good write-up, thanks.

Sure beats a one-line comment that implies another flight crew may have been at fault for flying at a take-off speed (wut?). :mad:
Click to expand...

Um, yes, the MD80 was cleared for takeoff, and another jet crossed their path. Not the fault of the MD80 crew.


Corpie took the southern taxi route instead of the northern route….

IMG_9470.gif
 
Final report is out. Lack of pre flight planning led to confusion and him becoming hyper focused on trying to enter waypoint in navigation system. Airplane pitched up and started to stall before he noticed. Spatial disorientation led to the final descent and crash.
 

Attachments

notapilot said:
Final report is out. Lack of pre flight planning led to confusion and him becoming hyper focused on trying to enter waypoint in navigation system. Airplane pitched up and started to stall before he noticed. Spatial disorientation led to the final descent and crash.
Click to expand...
WTH, over?!?

Sorry, but If one is ever flying a Pilatus and ever "doesn't notice a stall", that person should never have gotten signed off for a private pilot cert.

I'd say that for any airplane but fear I'd be accused of air-rogance, 'cause a few airplanes are actually somewhat tricky.
 
notapilot said:
Final report is out. Lack of pre flight planning led to confusion and him becoming hyper focused on trying to enter waypoint in navigation system. Airplane pitched up and started to stall before he noticed. Spatial disorientation led to the final descent and crash.
Click to expand...
jesus-christ-truck.gif
 
form810 said:
It's a great system... except for the video-game-esque "track ball". That nonsense will hang you and drown you like a witch in Salem.
Click to expand...
The Collins ProLine21 Fusion is the same way!
I’ll never understand why equipment is designed by people that will never use it!
NOT a single pilot was involved in the Fusion design…..IMHO!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top