dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Ahhhh…..thanks. I though they turned into the pattern..oh well, I’m old! Bottom line: they crashed an airplane that had two fully functioning engines because a door opened.
Phenom 300 issue:
- Thread starter dustoff17
- Start date
knot4u
Repeat Offender
The Phenom apparently is very sensitive to any disturbance in what I'll call the RVSM area of the fuselage. Occasionally you have to obtain the certified equipment from Embraer to "map" the skin of the of the aircraft in the areas they feel is critical. It's a pain in the ass, it takes at least three people and you actually write on the jet as you do it, luckily everything needed to accomplish the task comes in a big "suitcase" that includes a dry erase marker. After you've accomplished this task the results are sent to engineers and you'll wait to find out if somehow an undamaged is no longer airworthy. Embraer is not the only manufacturer that requires these evaluations, but Embraer is the worst regarding these inspections. I think most of the manufacturers require it because airplanes have a tendency to be repainted, but Embraer wants to keep all MX in house or with service centers apparently. I watched that Citation that crashed off the end of 34 take-off. If you have doors on the nose of your airplane it's your responsibilty to make sure they're closed and latched properly.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
I must be slow... What do you write on the aircraft and why?
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
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knot4u
Repeat Offender
The measurements that were taken on many points over a grid that you lay out on the airplane fuselage around the smart probes. The procedure is in the amm and rvsm manuals. The equipment required is available from Embraer.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I did not assume that your preflight was inadequate, and I hope you understood I was commenting about that Citation. Phenoms seem very sensitive regarding ADC faults and it would not be a suprise to me if a faulty signal from a nose door switch would cause a bunch of cascading failures in the avionics logic. I'm just a dumb mechanic and I'm not that well versed in Phenoms having only worked with them a bit, but I'd imagine if I were looking for the issue I'd start at the switch that causes that door message, because that was your first fault and move from there to the smart probe. Smart probes fail occasionally, I've changed them on almost brand new G650s. I hope you didn't assume I was questioning your actions or abilities, but that Citation crash hits kind of close to home because I saw it depart. It sounds like you did everything right when the • hit the fan, now you have a TMAAT story with a positive ending. I would appreciate it if you can share what the repair was once it's fixed.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
It was inadequate. I already admitted that I didn’t ensure it was latched! I’m sure the moderate turbulence caused it to jar loose but had I double checked it, it would have stayed secure.
The post from @Brad Johnson started me thinking and my next post was a “guess” based on his comment. The next day, I made SURE the latch was secured, took off and had no issues during the following 4 hour flight.
No repairs needed!
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
I thought you were very open about what happened. You really had your hands full but choose to fly the airplane. Who can fault you for that? Good job.
I’ve sure learned from my aviation mistakes, some have bothered me for a couple days and no one, not ATC, not the passengers, even noticed my error.
mightynimbus
Well-Known Member
"for a good time call" ?
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
I had an airspeed disagree by 30 knots descending into BOI in the 100. My guess was our probes failed/iced up. The only thing I had in common with your scenario is icing conditions.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Emb-120 sim instructors favorite caution to throw at you on takeoff was “cargo door”. I honestly can’t remember if we aborted takeoffs for that or not. I actually had it as a nuisance message happen a few times flying the line that they MELd it with the light on.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Someone just posted this on another forum yesterday, sounds very similar to your issue:
As we fly around in glass cockpit aircraft, all I can say is “know your systems”.
This guy flew a brand new single engine jet with glass cockpit over the North Atlantic, in the winter, DID I MENTION SINGLE ENGINE?
“Over 7 days we flew for 32.7hrs covering 9569nm and landed in 12 countries. Temperatures on the ground ranged from -35C(-37F) in the Arctic to 38C(100F) in the Sahara desert.”
“We had more than our fair share of failures over the Arctic where we lost airspeed reading, altitude, VSI, autopilot, had FADEC warnings, databased corruptions and a whole lot more. It was scary deep dive into handling inflight emergencies in a very unforgiving environment but I am better off for the experience.”
“Static port blockage (the worst one):
We are guessing that when they washed the aircraft prior to collection a meaningful amount of water got into the static port 2 tubes. There are multiple sumps but they didn't capture it. All was fine until we hit the polar temps where the outside air (about -65C at the time) caused this to freeze and block the port. A slight change in pressure caused the two readings to differ creating a miscompare failure that disconnected the autopilot. The system then erroneously selected the faulty port as the correct data, this caused an overread on the speed and the ESP pitched the aircraft nose up to try correct it, it would have stalled the aircraft trying to correct it. Tragically the backup unit is also connected to static port 2 so that was also reading incorrectly. My instructor deactivated the ESP unit and put the plane back into a regular attitude and we started descending. You can see this all happening in the attached photo, where airspeed has gone off the top, VSI is showing 0 and altitude is pegged at 31k even though we had descended to about 14,000' at this point. What really saved us is that it was VFR at the time and we had ipads which we could verify our GPS altitude and speed against, will never fly again without one. It was then clear that something was wrong with ADC2, we switched the sensors over to ADC1, pulled the breakers for ADC2 and all our readings were then correct. The autopilot and CAPS wont work without two reading hence those CAS messages. We had to then hand fly our way all the way to Iceland in IMC with only 1 port working. We got it into a warm hanger and the problems cleared out but we visited Cirrus in the Netherlands to clear out all the tubes to make sure. The health of these ports is far more important than I ever considered.
Solution: GET A STATIC PORT COVER!”
“Engine problems:
These were related to the extreme temperatures. They were scary at the time but were actually not such a big deal. We were a bit more careful to manage engine temperatures for the rest of the trip. Engine data was sent to Williams and they were comfortable.
Solution: If it's that cold outside the engine needs a bit more attention.”
“Other problems:
- corrupt data was caused by someone sticking a SD card with databases into the PFD, don't do that.
- flaps failure caused by cold temps
- aircon unit seized up due to cold temps”
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Wow!
Thats a LOT going on. At least if I went down, I wouldn’t have been devoured by an Orca!
Thanks for sharing.
After carefully looking at the baggage latch, I have no clue how it came undone. There is NO way I didn’t have it locked. I’m now convinced that the turbulence dislodged it somehow. Because it’s either closed or not!
if I didn’t have it locked, the CAS message would have been there at start up.The latch/message didn’t revealed until more than an hour and 45 minutes.
Thats a LOT going on. At least if I went down, I wouldn’t have been devoured by an Orca!
Thanks for sharing.
After carefully looking at the baggage latch, I have no clue how it came undone. There is NO way I didn’t have it locked. I’m now convinced that the turbulence dislodged it somehow. Because it’s either closed or not!
if I didn’t have it locked, the CAS message would have been there at start up.The latch/message didn’t revealed until more than an hour and 45 minutes.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
If I was your F/O I'd be like "which checklist do you want me to run"...
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
It’s all ball bearings these days.
