Phenom 300 issue:

[dustoff17]

I was descending, IMC, on a STAR last night, headed to Henderson (Vegas), when I got a CAS indicating LH FWD BAGGAGE OPEN (had already flown 1+45 at this point). Non-event in my book, keep flying……..

Then things got weird. I got a “SPEED” warning on my speed tape and noted a 10-18 knot difference between the left and right airspeed indications. The CAS Christmas tree started…..Ventral rudder failure followed by a YD Fail and AP Fail. I silence the warning and started hand-flying…gotta love single-pilot operations!

Then ventral message disappeared, then returned along with the other failures plus a few….back and forth…all OK, failures….etc. Winds (240/25G35) and turbulence are killing me. I advise “no-contact“ for the visual 17R due to blowing snow/IMC, I get vectors for the RNAV, circle to land 17R.

In the circling maneuver, I’m seeing the following: AP Fail, YD Fail, Ventral Rudder Fail, FMS disagree, ROAAS unavailable, the SPEED warning and LH baggage message (may have been others as I haven’t experienced this many outside of the sim).

I’m at a loss here to figure out exactly what was going on.….any “helpful“ input is appreciated.

 

[Beep]

Did the messages go away before landing, or after taxiing? We’re you in icing conditions, was this accompanied by static/squealing on the radios?
That sounds like a crazy night!

 

[fholbert]

 

[EIR]

"COULD NOT DUPLICATE"
"OPS CHECK - GOOD"
[returned to service]

 

[dustoff17]

Did the messages go away before landing, or after taxiing? We’re you in icing conditions, was this accompanied by static/squealing on the radios?
That sounds like a crazy night!

As I turned into parking, the AP, YD, And Ventral Fail all cleared

 

[Screaming_Emu]

As I turned into parking, the AP, YD, And Ventral Fail all cleared

Of course. The closer you get to a mechanic, the more likely the messages are to clear.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Does a Phenom actually go fast enough that a sudden stop is dangerous?

 

[Skåning]

Of course. The closer you get to a mechanic, the more likely the messages are to clear.

It’s like when you have to poo while you’re out and about. Start racing home and you have to go worse.

 

[Beefy McGee]

So was the baggage bin open? Or maybe slightly unlatched?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I would have to think about it deeper, my first thought is that I am wondering if the baggage door was up any during flight. I know, hard to tell after landing and the latches on the baggage door are strong for sure.

If it was up slightly I would wonder if it could have been disturbing the air flow over the left hand smart probes. That may be the cause of the airspeed disagreenand FMS disagree.

The airspeed disagree in the 300 has the ability to spawn some bizarre CAS messages. I can see the AP, etc being caused by that but I’d have to dig into why.

Was there a Golden CAS message and if so, which one?

I will be curious to see the outcome of this be.

Brad

 

[mightynimbus]

Probably a stuck Fetzer valve

 

[dustoff17]

The door was secured but forward most latch was fully extended. (thought it was fully latch, mod turbulence must have jarred it loose).

@Brad Johnson this makes sense, if the airflow was disturbed at ALL, it would make the reading less on the left. The system picked up the variation (that explains the airspeed difference) and shucked the AP because the ADC didn’t like the disparity.

The Ventral failed because it relies on the ADC! AP, ROAAS, FMS and YD do as well. Clear as mud NOW! I didn’t have a lot of time to think it through in the snow and circle maneuver.

Thanks @Brad Johnson all is right with my world now……!

YD FAIL AND AP FAIL were the golden ones. Had a SWPS FAULT as well but that ties in to this too.

 

[dustoff17]

Probably a stuck Fetzer valve

Balls bearings and motor oil!
Should have remembered, I think they may have mentioned this on day 2 of initial…..thanks @mightynimbus!

 

[BobDDuck]

I'm reaching way back here, but I seem to remember another jet with a nose baggage compartment door that had a history of partially opening and screwing with the pitot tube directly aft of it. I'm kind of surprised the Phenom was allowed to be certified that way.

 

[ppragman]

I'm kind of surprised the Phenom was allowed to be certified that way.

Really? <gestures broadly towards 737 max>

 

[dustoff17]

I'm reaching way back here, but I seem to remember another jet with a nose baggage compartment door that had a history of partially opening and screwing with the pitot tube directly aft of it. I'm kind of surprised the Phenom was allowed to be certified that way.

I would love to jump on my favorite soap box and pounce on Embraer because most of the software on this plane either sucks or it’s stupid. However, I have to take FULL ownership on this one. Clearly I didn’t ensure that latch was secured!

BUT…….if it ever happens again, I’ll know……thank you to all!

There was a Citation Jet that had a LT FWD baggage door come open on takeoff. Nothing fell out but the guy stayed in the pattern, ended up stalling and killing all on board while crashing a perfectly functioning airplane.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

I would love to jump on my favorite soap box and pounce on Embraer because most of the software on this plane either sucks or it’s stupid. However, I have to take FULL ownership on this one. Clearly I didn’t ensure that latch was secured!

BUT…….if it ever happens again, I’ll know……thank you to all!

There was a Citation Jet that had a LT FWD baggage door come open on takeoff. Nothing fell out but the guy stayed in the pattern, ended up stalling and killing all on board while crashing a perfectly functioning airplane.

That citation only made it to 200 feet and never entered the pattern by any stretch of the imagination. It essentially crashed straight out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Minuteman]

I like Brad's thinking on this one.

But I can never over-share this gem from the Phenom 300:

EMBRAER HAS RECENTLY RECEIVED A REPORT OF GPS 1 AND 2
SIMULTANEOUS SIGNAL LOSS DURING FMS NAVIGATION IN CRUISE
FLIGHT FOLLOWED BY A GPS HSI 1 AND 2 FAILURE INDICATION,
ATTITUDE AND HEADING REFERENCE SYSTEM (AHRS) 1 AND 2 FAULT
AND, AFTER A FEW MINUTES, A STALL WARNING PROTECTION
SYSTEM (SWPS) FAULT, VENTRAL RUDDER FAIL, YAW DAMPER FAIL,
AUTO PILOT FAIL, AND CAS MESSAGES ASSOCIATED WITH
UNEXPECTED ROLLING AND YAWING OSCILLATIONS (DUTCH ROLL) AT
HIGH AIRSPEEDS.

FURTHER ANALYSIS REVEALED GPS CONSTELLATION SIGNAL
INSTABILITY IN THE FLIGHT AREA LEADING TO LOSS OF BOTH GPS
INFORMATION DATA AND CAUSING THE EVENT DESCRIBED ABOVE.

THE AHRS CONTINUOUSLY CALCULATES AND APPLIES ALTITUDE AND
HEADING MEASUREMENT UPDATES TO CORRECT GYRO-INTEGRATED 
ALTITUDE AND HEADING DURING FLIGHT MANEUVERS AND, IN NORMAL
OPERATION, THE AHRS RELIES UPON GPS, AIR DATA SYSTEM AND
MAGNETIC FIELD MEASUREMENTS SUPPLIED BY THE MAGNETOMETER
TO MAINTAIN PRIMARY AHRS OPERATION MODE.

THE DUTCH ROLL BEHAVIOR MAY BE EXPECTED FOR AN AIRPLANE
WITH NO YAW DAMPER AND/OR VENTRAL RUDDER PROTECTION,
ESPECIALLY ON AIRCRAFT WITH SWEPT WINGS.

IF THIS ANOMALY OCCURS CONTROLLERS CAN EXPECT THE PILOT
MAY REDUCE SPEED BELOW 240 KIAS/.63M AND INITIATE AN
EMERGENCY DESCENT.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/GENOT_7110_711_EMB-300.pdf

 

[Brad Johnson]

Based on your initial post, you had a lot going on and handled it really well - especially being single pilot. I have thought for a long time (been SP typed for about 6 years) the 300 can become a handful quickly if something is amiss.

It is more straightforward diagnosing these things from the comfy chair on the ground. In the air, do what you need to do to stay safe and load shed the rest. I would say you did that and the outcome was great.

Your pax owe you a beer, this could have been much worse.

GREAT JOB !!

Brad

 

[MFT1Air]

I was descending, IMC, on a STAR last night, headed to Henderson (Vegas), when I got a CAS indicating LH FWD BAGGAGE OPEN (had already flown 1+45 at this point). Non-event in my book, keep flying……..

Then things got weird. I got a “SPEED” warning on my speed tape and noted a 10-18 knot difference between the left and right airspeed indications. The CAS Christmas tree started…..Ventral rudder failure followed by a YD Fail and AP Fail. I silence the warning and started hand-flying…gotta love single-pilot operations!

Then ventral message disappeared, then returned along with the other failures plus a few….back and forth…all OK, failures….etc. Winds (240/25G35) and turbulence are killing me. I advise “no-contact“ for the visual 17R due to blowing snow/IMC, I get vectors for the RNAV, circle to land 17R.

In the circling maneuver, I’m seeing the following: AP Fail, YD Fail, Ventral Rudder Fail, FMS disagree, ROAAS unavailable, the SPEED warning and LH baggage message (may have been others as I haven’t experienced this many outside of the sim).

I’m at a loss here to figure out exactly what was going on.….any “helpful“ input is appreciated.

I've no clue. Glad you didn't receive an "eject, eject" or bailout message. They got that in the 300?