People working for free ruining industry?

v1valarob said:
What happens when this guy retires from the job? Is the airport going to expect the next person to do it for free? If not they will probably not offer the same pay that it originally had prior to it being a volunteer job.
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Like I had already stated, they were probably not offering pay commensurate with the position, otherwise, it would not have been a vacant position for so long.

Perhaps you would rather someone took the job for much less than the job was worth. What would that do to the value of that position? Think about it.
 
Maddog1974 said:
Hey,

Sorry of I came off a bit harsh. Just had a lovely day of trying to find students in the same market as the airport in this article. No students flying and worse yet, one company that I have seen that would lend to students in a part 61 flight school, Sallie Mae, will not add more flight schools to their "list".

I will however be visiting the airport later this week to poke my nose around and learn a little bit about this person. I will let you guys know how it looks.
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No worries, things are rough all around and everyone seems to be a bit on edge. I know I'm feeling the stress. Emotionally, the article still bothers me and there's probably not much I'll be able to change about that. Sitting back and thinking logically about it though, the jury's still out. I can see both the good and the bad in it, but I don't often find a coin with only two sides...
 
when I worked at Home Depot we had an older guy who worked there that gave his entire paycheck to charity. thats cool. working for free....I wish I could say thats cool, but I'm not real comfortable with it. If the position was "open" for 9 months then the compensation for the job is obviously not acceptable. or they just didn't try real hard to fill the position.

as for the guy who was doing ground instruction for free, which displaced a person who needed the paycheck...thats messed up. set his car on fire, or at least pee on his door handles.

the only way you should work for free is if its your own company or its for a charity.
 
Used to be volunteering to serve your community was considered a good thing.

The guy agreed to serve as interim director for one year while they look for a full-time director. It's a very small airport (AirNav says less than 100 based A/C and ~145 avg. ops/day) in a small community. I seriously doubt this retired General is doing this to build up his airport management TT so he can move on to the heavy tarmac. Nor does it sound like they've got people beating down the door for the job. This guy's just trying to contribute to his community and y'all are dogging him for it?? Oy. What a world.
 
dakovich said:
the only way you should work for free is if its your own company or its for a charity.
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:yeahthat:

Funny how some folks think it's OK for this job, but not flying jobs they might want to do themselves. Hard to stay principled when so many willflyforfood.
 
richarms said:
:yeahthat:

Funny how some folks think it's OK for this job, but not flying jobs they might want to do themselves. Hard to stay principled when so many willflyforfood.
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Once difference in this job is that it is paid by tax payers. Not that difficult to discern the difference. :rolleyes: And as I already mentioned, taking a community position for free is considerably different then a private position for less than the recognized rate.
 
darrenf said:
Once difference in this job is that it is paid by tax payers. Not that difficult to discern the difference. :rolleyes: And as I already mentioned, taking a community position for free is considerably different then a private position for less than the recognized rate.
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I agree with you that the positions are different and I see your point.

Although my community has a volunteer fire department and a paid police department. So what if many of us civic minded folks wanted to help the community by saving tax payers money paying the police (or clerks, or school teachers, or water department,etc.)

I just think like darrenf, their are plenty of charitable alternatives. Saving the tax payers money even in the interim will make the city less likely to hire a qualified candidate sooner, IMHO.
 
richarms said:
Although my community has a volunteer fire department and a paid police department. So what if many of us civic minded folks wanted to help the community by saving tax payers money paying the police (or clerks, or school teachers, or water department,etc.)
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My hometown (small town in SD) had a volunteer police auxiliary that functioned much like the volunteer fire department and supplemented the small group of paid police officers for big events. Small communities do not have the luxury of having the budget for paid staff for everything that needs to be done.
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
My hometown (small town in SD) had a volunteer police auxiliary that functioned much like the volunteer fire department and supplemented the small group of paid police officers for big events. Small communities do not have the luxury of having the budget for paid staff for everything that needs to be done.
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Exactly. There are paid positions and there are volunteer positions. I don't want to take away a paid position from someone by doing that job for free. I live in a small (but growing) community also. I totally agree that there are always things to do to help.

Just trying to draw the comparison into flying. We will always have pilots offering to fly cheaper than the employed pilots. Some are young and want the adventure and experience, others are just scabs. Like other folks have posted, I do not have all the information on the circumstances of the General taking the job. Just thinking broadly from my background of being paid by the US taxpayers for 22 years.:)
 
I volunteer 4 hours a week at my community library. Am I taking money away from someone who would otherwise be paid? Or am I supporting a valuable community resource that has a limited budget?
 
richarms said:
Exactly. There are paid positions and there are volunteer positions. I don't want to take away a paid position from someone by doing that job for free. I live in a small (but growing) community also. I totally agree that there are always things to do to help.

Just trying to draw the comparison into flying. We will always have pilots offering to fly cheaper than the employed pilots. Some are young and want the adventure and experience, others are just scabs. Like other folks have posted, I do not have all the information on the circumstances of the General taking the job. Just thinking broadly from my background of being paid by the US taxpayers for 22 years.:)
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Sorry, if there is a position that a volunteer can and wants to take on, and their performance results in no loss of service to the taxpayer, I will cheer that person on everytime if they want to do the job.

This guy cares about the airport, the position wasn't filled, and things need to be done. I can't imagine why someone would not support this guy.:confused:
 
darrenf said:
Sorry, if there is a position that a volunteer can and wants to take on, and their performance results in no loss of service to the taxpayer, I will cheer that person on everytime if they want to do the job.

This guy cares about the airport, the position wasn't filled, and things need to be done. I can't imagine why someone would not support this guy.:confused:
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I don't see the point in flaming someone coming out of retirement doing this for free. Obviously the job is either not doted high enough for 'normal' people to do it, or there is a lack of qualified and motivated applicants.

However, this is an interesting subject with more and more Pilots loosing their livelyhoods and the wages in our industry reaching the bottom quite soon. We already pay for our jobs as it is. The guy I just applied to, wants a 3500 dollar check to let me fly for him. I might as well volunteer my time and fly for free... it seems to have become a standard.
 
skydog said:
I volunteer 4 hours a week at my community library. Am I taking money away from someone who would otherwise be paid? Or am I supporting a valuable community resource that has a limited budget?
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Absolutely nothing wrong with volunteering. Did they fire the Librarian because you helped out? What if someone like you could volunteer 40 hours? Should the community decide to go all volunteer? Like the airport and the General, that is the community's call.

The big city to the west pays their pilots from taxpayer dollars. I don't believe volunteering for their jobs is correct. If the town used volunteers to augment, that would be different. Principles don't change for the occasion.
 
Cessna414JJB said:
I don't see the point in flaming someone coming out of retirement doing this for free. Obviously the job is either not doted high enough for 'normal' people to do it, or there is a lack of qualified and motivated applicants.

However, this is an interesting subject with more and more Pilots loosing their livelyhoods and the wages in our industry reaching the bottom quite soon. We already pay for our jobs as it is. The guy I just applied to, wants a 3500 dollar check to let me fly for him. I might as well volunteer my time and fly for free... it seems to have become a standard.
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There is a very simple litmus test here. Is it a business/money making venture that requires you to fly? Then you do not do it for free, and you get as much as you possibly can for the position.
 
Well does the library have a $15.4 million economic impact, 190 employees, and $5.2 million in payroll? I have a hard time swallowing that an organization with that impact should be led on a volunteer basis. I can guarantee that the city manager isn't volunteering his time.
 
Just an observation, and I may be opening myself up to get shot down, but....

This guy did not take a Flying Position....so why are we bitching??

Someone find out what the city was offering to pay the person who would
actually take the job!! Actually, this is goin on my list of things to do for tomorrow!!

To fly or not to fly, that is the question!!
 
darrenf said:
There is a very simple litmus test here. Is it a business/money making venture that requires you to fly? Then you do not do it for free, and you get as much as you possibly can for the position.
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:yeahthat: my friend! :yeahthat:

But: how do you fly for $ when the average pilot will do it for nada?
Serious question, little guy looking up, asking! :p

X+Y = Z
Number of jobs to number of available pilots = X
Number of pilots not flying for lack of reasonable income to those doing it for free = Y

X = Nausea
Y = Diarrea
____________
Z = SICKNESS

No matter which end it comes out off, it stinks!
 
I know I'm new to this whole flying thing and enjoy reading about the ups and downs of my chosen future industry, but it's said a lot that people will fly for free, and I just seem to have a feeling that the people going through flight school now and paying through their nose for all the ratings, and who would in theory fly the paint off a 747 for free (me) would not realize that they will one day have bills too, if they don't already (me) and therefore they wouldn't actually fly for free. Even if they fly for less today, tomorrow they will insist on more pay because that's what everyone does over time. This industry needs some PR to show the public that not everyone flies 4 days a month and makes six figures. Cause unless they know, and they complain to the airlines, or the g-men, nothing will change cause the airlines have no pressure to, insanity, look up Einstein's definition of it.
 
If you work for free, what does that do to the pay rates for those who have jobs in that industry?

Anytime a manager wants to lower his compensation costs, all he has to do is fire the person who's in the job now and "hire" the person who will do it for free.

Never do a job that you should be paid to do for free. Be a #####, not a ####.
 
Maddog1974 said:
Just an observation, and I may be opening myself up to get shot down, but....

This guy did not take a Flying Position....so why are we bitching??

Someone find out what the city was offering to pay the person who would
actually take the job!! Actually, this is goin on my list of things to do for tomorrow!!

To fly or not to fly, that is the question!!
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Because not everyone who is a member on this website is interested in flying for a living.

There are those who seek professional employment in an airport management position. Which, situations like this, negatively pull down their side of the industry as well.

Also, there is a certain sense of responsibility when you are working for a paycheck that is absent when you're doing the task for free with no real repercussions if you suck at what you do. Here is to hoping that the General is at least somewhat able to do the job successfully and thus the local government doesn't see that he is a boob at the job and that they perhaps should have hired someone with a vested interest in the success of the operation.
 
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