Penalized for fatigue report?!?!??!?

av8tr1

"Never tell me the odds!"
Last week I had a airport reserve shift. I arrived early for my shift and checked in early.

I had an upcoming personal event that I was a bit emotional about and didn't get much sleep the night before preparing for that trip which was expecting to be life changing. I also recently injured my wrist a month ago and was having trouble with it waiting on my doctor to make a decision on what to do about it (surgery or cast based on results of MRI). I didn't want to leave the pilot group short and having to fill my flights so I chose to continue to fly for the last month. My wrist isn't really impacting my flying it's just a slight annoyance at the moment.

I maybe got 4 hours of sleep two nights in a row before the shift in question. At the time I thought I could handle any trip that came up (our flights are short no more than 1.5 hours to the the outstation where I can catch up on rest). As the morning rolled on it became apparent to me that I was not going to be fit for duty. Another employee was concerned about me and said he didn't think I should be flying that day.

Well we had one flight cancel which by policy moved that pilot up to the airport reserve and I moved down a notch to home research. Then we have a new pilot who didn't want to fly in the weather that morning (long story for another thread). We had fog and rain with 800RVR so it was going to be a difficult departure and flight and she didn't feel like she could handle the departure.

So I called in fatigued to dispatch. I told them I had to prepare for my trip and it was impacting my sleep and I just wasn't able to safely fly the flight. And suggested they assign the canceled flight pilot per the policy to my new assigned flight.

The dispatcher who I first spoke with blew his top on me and said I had no choice to fly and dispatch decides who gets assigned what flight. Hes a guy who is known for being difficult and most pilots just hang up to avoid having to speak with him. So I ended the call with him and called another dispatcher. The dispatcher said I can file a fatigue report but I faced a "No Show". By company policy 3 "No Shows" is an automatic termination.

The pilot group (like most airlines) has a cold war relationship with dispatch. Both groups are pretty hostile to each other. So any attempt at working together is usually met with hostility. Basically dispatch doesn't want pilots telling them how to do their job and takes offence anytime a pilot suggests a different option. Even when the suggestion is the company policy apparently.

So I found out yesterday my fatigue report was denied and I was given a "No Show" for the day. Even after the chief pilot went to bat for me. Apparently dispatchers have final say on if a pilot is fit to fly or not. Who knew? o_O

I was pretty tired that day and truly wasn't fit to fly. I was too tired to even recognize how tired I was. So bad in fact that another pilot friend of mine took me aside and said I probably shouldn't be flying that day. I thought the rules were if a pilot called in fatigued the FAA said there isn't supposed to be any repercussions. The company apparently has a punitive model for fatigue calls.

So now I have a "No Show" on my file, two more and I am out. We don't have a union (I am starting to see the benefits of having one) and I don't want to call the FAA as was suggested by another pilot.

Suggestions? Or should I just accept the "No show"? I like the company and the flying we do. But I've gone out of my way for the company with my injured wrist. And it looks like my support to the company isn't reciprocated.
 
Assuming this is a 135 operator without a FRMP program???


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We do both 135 and 121. I'm on the 135 side. We do however have a FRMP program.

Taken directly from the front page of the FRMP policy manual.

"In accordance with the company's Just Culture policy the fatigue reporting program is a non-punitive forum in which employees can feel comfortable reporting fatigue related events and concerns in a good faith without fear of adverse action from the company."
 
Firstly, no future employer will care what a 135 carrier has to say about you.

If you report safety and regulatory violations, you will almost certainly face retaliation. Yes it's illegal, and yes, you'll win in whatever hearing you end up in, months down the road, but thats months away. Start looking for another job, and report after you've left. It sucks, it's not ideal, but you have to protect yourself. DAMHIK.... etc.
 
Firstly, no future employer will care what a 135 carrier has to say about you.

If you report safety and regulatory violations, you will almost certainly face retaliation. Yes it's illegal, and yes, you'll win in whatever hearing you end up in, months down the road, but thats months away. Start looking for another job, and report after you've left. It sucks, it's not ideal, but you have to protect yourself. DAMHIK.... etc.

Sigh...yep, that's what I figured too. And it's already happening. I have a doctors appointment next week to discuss the options for my wrist. He wanted me to see him right away which isn't a good sign. I was originally home reserve but got bumped up late last night to a flight the day of my doctors appointment. I talked them into bumping me down to airport reserve but threatened with another "No show" if I don't take a flight if it comes up. I'd gladly take the day sick without pay but they think I am manipulating the system.
 
Fix your wrist first. Take care of yourself, your company won’t and you’ll pay for it later in life. I’m sure there are better informed people here than me to tell you about how to deal with the fatigue part. Get a job with a company with a real farigue risk management program though. Nice job on the fatigue call too. Good luck on the event coming up. Things with your company may seem like a big deal now but they always work out if you’re a straight shooter.
 
I have never heard of dispatch having the final say in a fatigue call, I would absolutely dispute that, at the same time as updating all my apps. Can I assume that because you said this is 135 and 121, that you possibly fly boxes and charter at this company? If so, that narrows it down a lot and none of them are any good. GTFO and get some better work conditions.
 

Seriously man, do you actually have any background in aviation? You've claimed to be a vet, could you give us all a little sense of what brought you to this site and why you're such a prolific poster?

This is the second time I've asked because this is just starting to seem ridiculous. That link you threw in there doesn't even make any sense, unless it's just flame-bait- in which case you're seriously just trolling.
 
The last airline I worked at that lacked a union threw my sick call in my face ( I did have 2 of them in 8 months) That decision was made as a safety concern for my fit to fly before those days, but when they had me in a pinch with a missed commute they used that as fuel for the fire.

I honestly don't get why a dispatcher even has the authority to determine your fatigue level or not. Hope it all works out man. I hear ya on the radios in and out of PDX from time to time, safe flying bud
 
Seriously man, do you actually have any background in aviation? You've claimed to be a vet, could you give us all a little sense of what brought you to this site and why you're such a prolific poster?

This is the second time I've asked because this is just starting to seem ridiculous. That link you threw in there doesn't even make any sense, unless it's just flame-bait- in which case you're seriously just trolling.
upload_2017-10-28_23-1-42.jpeg
 
hit a sensitive issue ??
That link you threw in ... it's just flame-bait-

as to threads on this forum
with lots honest advice for "Living Paycheck to Paycheck"; the massive debt of an aviation degree/ ticket; the pittance of pay after being indebted by tens of $K to obtain a CFII just to gain employment to start building hours; the $cost to build hours in general; how lousy Legacy contracted Regionals treat their ATPs; and then the thread that gained weeks of conversation of how two, two minute on-line job fair scrambles / invitation by DELTA was the most desired ticket just to be beauty screened for a cherished legacy job offer with all the financial benefits!! says a lot of the state of commercial aviation.
 
hit a sensitive issue ??


as to threads on this forum
with lots honest advice for "Living Paycheck to Paycheck"; the massive debt of an aviation degree/ ticket; the pittance of pay after being indebted by tens of $K to obtain a CFII just to gain employment to start building hours; the $cost to build hours in general; how lousy Legacy contracted Regionals treat their ATPs; and then the thread that gained weeks of conversation of how two, two minute on-line job fair scrambles / invitation by DELTA was the most desired ticket just to be beauty screened for a cherished legacy job offer with all the financial benefits!! says a lot of the state of commercial aviation.
So the answer to my question is “no”?

That’s fine, I have opinions about subjects I don’t have any experience with either. I just try and get that out up front though.
 
If you knew the dispatcher that first spoke with you was particularly ornery, why would you go into your explanation of fatigue and then suggest to him how to do his job? Just call to say you're fatigued, and explain it later in your report.
You basically admitted on the phone that the fatigue was pilot induced and in your control, but that shouldn't mean that it gets denied and turned into a no-show (but I'm not 100% sure how anything 135 works). Something doesn't make sense here.
 
If you knew the dispatcher that first spoke with you was particularly ornery, why would you go into your explanation of fatigue and then suggest to him how to do his job? Just call to say you're fatigued, and explain it later in your report.
You basically admitted on the phone that the fatigue was pilot induced and in your control, but that shouldn't mean that it gets denied and turned into a no-show (but I'm not 100% sure how anything 135 works). Something doesn't make sense here.

I had heard he was difficult but hadn’t had any experience with it. The few times I had spoken with him I hadn’t had any issues.

The guy is disabled and angry at the world as a result though he created his disability.

How is difficulty sleeping pilot induced? It’s not like I was out partying the night before.
 
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