Pay raise today
- Thread starter jynxyjoe
- Start date
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
One of the guys on the 9E MEC explained it to me awhile ago. I guess you have a certain week for vacation, but then you can slide it in either direction by a certain amount of days. So you could go from wed-wed of vacation if you want.
At 9L we have a standard Sat-Fri week with regular line bidding. "Crew planning" can't guarantee trip touching, but it works sometimes. I have seen guys get 3 weeks off out of 1 week of vacation. With a sliding vacation, line bidding, and trip touching, you could make out pretty well.
But with PBS and sliding vacation, you can put your vacation wherever you want it, but unless your senior enough, PBS could place working days right before vacation and right afterwards, so you may end up commuting on vacation.
I can't decide which I would rather have. Sliding would have helped out this past summer when I was a best man in England. The wedding was on a Saturday, but our vacation goes from Sat-Fri. I wanted to be there the week before the wedding, but then my vacation doesn't actually guarantee me the day of the wedding off. But who the hell wants to hang out the week after a wedding??!
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
Vacation Slide allows us to move our vacation days AFTER PBS builds our schedule. Basically, PBS builds us a schedule and then our vacation is added in and any trip the vacation days covers is then removed. Our vacation is Sat-Sat, so the slide is great when you have a 2 day that starts the Sunday after your vacation. You just move your vacation to Tues-Sun and get those extra 2 days off. There are some rules associated with this, but it really is beneficial.
I was hired in May of 2008 and because of this, was only awarded 3 days of vacation the first year. When my vacation month came around, I bid Constant Duty Overnights figuring that I could use the slide easier. When schedules were published, my vacation days fell on days I would have been off anyway, so I would have been screwed if not for the slide. I ended up with 10 days off in a row by using my 3 vacation days to cover 3 CDO's. It worked great for me. That said, this year I was unable to slide at all because of the way our schedules have been built for the last few months (10-12 days off and 94 hours).
As for Call-in-Honest, it is our commuter policy. As a commuter, I am required to try 2 flights that get me to my base before my showtime. If I try on both and am unable to get on either, I can "call-in-honest" and I am excused from not making my trip. I then have to continue to try to come in and when I eventually get on a flight, scheduling puts me back on my original trip. We can currently CIH twice within a rolling 12 months.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Are you with XJ or 9E?
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
Pinnacle.
Seriously, what the heck is going on. 9E has picketing on Friday. Our MEC comes out with an email last night saying we are making progress and that we at XJ should not picket with 9E on Friday because it would be counterproductive. Who the heck are we supposed to believe. Either there's some disorganization between the MECs, or our own MEC is dillusional to the fact they are dealing with 9E management.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Cultural differences. XJ hasn't been negotiating for a contract for nearly 6 years. We've been "making progress" the whole time we've been negotiating, but we still don't have a decent deal in front of us. XJ isn't flying with an 11 year old contract that allows them to be beat down, so most of the guys are content to let this take it's course. 9E guys are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore. We had picketing scheduled in DTW a few months ago, but once the company agreed to the JCBA negotiations, we canceled it in good faith. Once again, our faith in management has been abused as they continue to drag things out indefinately. First THEY set two deadloines, which weren't met, and now we're operating on no deadline at all. Things really only started happening the last couple of negotiating meetings as the deadlines got close. Given management's track record of the past several years, I don't see them suddenly acquiring a conscience and doing things right without a deadline looming.
If we reach a deal by 12:30 central time tomorrow, awesome. We'll put down the signs and stop walking. However, I'm not gonna hold my breathe on a deal being done by the end of the YEAR. I've had my hopes dashed against the wall so many times during these negotiations the past few years I just don't even hope anymore. At this point, I almost don't care if we get a deal. I just want out to an airline higher on the food chain.....
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
F'n Yankees suck.
I DID find a kick butt Irish pub down in Southaven this afternoon. Like banger and mash, shepard's pie, potato soup, Guiness, smoke and live music. MUCH better than the Fox and Hound.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
F'n Yankees suck.
I DID find a kick butt Irish pub down in Southaven this afternoon. Like banger and mash, shepard's pie, potato soup, Guiness, smoke and live music. MUCH better than the Fox and Hound.
I'm off for like a million days this month and I get paid 3 times apparently. If it's cheap, first round is on me. No god damn work talk. I've got car stuff to bitch about for hours and hours. Then when we are done talking about cars, you tell me how the kid and wife are doing. THEN if we run out of that to talk about, I'm gonna to talk football until you pass out.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
European or American football?
I'm off Wed/Thurs for the most part. Last weekend is Tues/Wed. Doing the zoo volunteer thing on the 15th and my 15 year wedding anniversay (Jesus Christ) is on the 23rd. Other than that, I'm wide open.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
European or American football?
Of course you tell me this Friday. Alright, 22?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I'll pencil ya in.
The whole picketing just became a moot point for me. My "favorite" people to talk to on the phone just called and added an out and back on my schedule during the picketing.....
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I'll pencil ya in.
The whole picketing just became a moot point for me. My "favorite" people to talk to on the phone just called and added an out and back on my schedule during the picketing.....
Hehe, it's ok. Is it still going on? I noticed ALPA.org wasn't putting anything up about the picketing. I was hoping for a last minute hug out session.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Well, there were 60 9E guys and a FedEx guy out there yesterday, and it went well. Sorry to the XJ and 9L guys, but the "progress" we've since Wed is about the same amount of "progress" the 9E group has seen from this same negotiating team from management since about February. Section 25 closed yet? Nope. Still got vacation and insurance open as well. Essentially, we're down to the big sections, which historically, this management team takes, literally, years to close. Without any sort of pressure on them (and I don't buy the "they need the JCBA for cost issues" since if they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation), they'll continue to drag it out. From the words of our negotiatiors, and I hate to undermine the 9L MEC, but I'm going to, the above sections are a bit misleading. Of everything listed, scope is the only thing accomplished THIS week. Long call reserve is still subject to change since section 25 is still open. Even then, last I heard the language governing it was still up in the air. Retirement is still subject to change since it's linked with insurance. The 4 hour min day was worked out weeks ago prior to the second management set deadline. Even then, we had to fight to make sure it applied to ALL pilots and not just JET pilots. 11 days off for everyone was also done about the same time. DoS pay raise increases are pretty much industry standard. If we didn't get those, there would be some serious issues.
Once again, wake me up when we get scheduling, insurance, vacation and compensation closed. Hell, I'd be happy with just Section 25. I've seen the same three sections open for over a year on our own negotiations. Sorry if the "progress" made isn't impressing me so far, but the history of 9E says we could be waiting for a while.
In the meantime, hope to see some 9E guys on the picket line in JFK on the 14th. I'm already flying that day.
Once again, wake me up when we get scheduling, insurance, vacation and compensation closed. Hell, I'd be happy with just Section 25. I've seen the same three sections open for over a year on our own negotiations. Sorry if the "progress" made isn't impressing me so far, but the history of 9E says we could be waiting for a while.
In the meantime, hope to see some 9E guys on the picket line in JFK on the 14th. I'm already flying that day.
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
And since we don't have a lot of Virginia Beach commuters, I think I know the guy. If I'm ruby, let's hope be doesn't go out on an OJI this winter checking the avionics bay door.
We actually only have 2 commuters out of ORF, but you guessed correct. And funny you should mention the OJI. Looks like I am probably getting another knee surgery in January for that same injury (never really healed). But the good news is that I was told during my PC that we won't be checking the Avionics Bay door during our preflight anymore. Too many broken handles.
Any hints on your real life identity???
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
As to the progress being made, I posted the following on APC Forums.
I had been trying to stay silent during this, but I am sick of some people on here acting as if the Pinnacle MEC doesn't know what they are doing. I am sick of the "it's not our first rodeo" comments from Mesaba guys. I am sick of hearing how close we are to a contract. I want to give a little perspective to the people who have not dealt with the Pinnacle Management for very long.
Pretty much everybody reading this will know that the Pinnacle pilots reached a TA in August 2009. In September, we voted that garbage down and started a new period in our negotiations. The next few months were spent voting new members in to the MEC, doing a poll to figure out what the pilots wanted in a new contract, deciding on a path for negotiations, and cleaning up the language in the failed TA. The language was of course very important, since our management loves to interpret things differently than how we do.
Actual negotiations didn't really start until the week of March 8th. Negotiations then went on for 4 of the next 5 weeks. We heard from management how much they wanted to get this done. We bought it, again, or at least faked it well enough to act in good faith. Here are direct quotes from the negotiating committee updates that we got over the next few months.
Oh, and the gaps between some of these dates is because of NMB availability.
3/16/10 - "Today, we started with our second of four scheduled weeks of negotiations with the company. We are building upon the good momentum established during last week’s session where many of the lagging problems were resolved. Additionally, we were able to agree in concept on many other issues that are in various states of drafting."
4/09/10 - "While there was considerable anticipation that a deal might be reached this week, in the end there was too much work remaining on the outstanding sections. A mutual decision was made to extend our direct negotiations period beyond the originally agreed to four week period in order to preserve the momentum we have generated thus far."
4/9/10 - "After the review of the outstanding issues, we started with provisions regarding pay and scheduling shortfalls when returning to service from leaves including medical, OJI, military, and personal. We continued the positive momentum and completed work in several other areas that needed improvement including call in honest provisions, home study allotments, as well as several scheduling issues."
5/11/10 - "The past several weeks have been productive in finding resolution to many of the outstanding issues identified in the pilot group polling and editorial review. The list of open items has been paired down significantly even from where we were just a month ago. Continuous updates will be broadcast throughout the week detailing our progress at this week’s session. Stand by for more updates."
5/11/10 - [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Today’s contract negotiating session with the Company was very productive. Early in the day, we secured final agreement on all of the proposed changes to both Section 1 (Scope) and the Parent Letter that binds Pinnacle Corp. to our pilot group. The changes in these two documents, while not immense, clarify, strengthen, and fill the gaps of the agreement made in the first TA. We also clarified language in Section 3 (Compensation) that makes it more clear on the conditions required for the listed carriers to be included in the industry average.
Later in the day we continued work on a multifaceted package deal that focuses on a number of pilot availability issues, including eleventh day off for reserves, junior assigning, extensions, and a number of other reserve issues. The topics within this package have been narrowed down significantly and we will continue working on this Wednesday morning. Successful resolution of this package will significantly reduce our list of open issues and allow us to move forward with the final issues."
5/13/10 - "Progressive movement towards a successor tentative agreement was made today. Resolution was had on all remaining vacation issues and provisions were agreed to that improve the administrative and structural issues with the reserve bucket lists. Provisions that allow pilot group visibility and association oversight of the bucket list were also added. Difficulty persisted and little progress was made on benefit issues, such as the retirement and insurance sections as well as several pilot availability issues that are on the table.
6/22/10 - "We started the day reviewing and clarifying the list of open issues still needing resolution to achieve a comprehensive agreement. We then proceeded to exchange proposals. Throughout the day, we were able to reach agreement on some issues including final resolution on pay scales and duration but we remain distant on several others.
6/23/10 - "Today’s negotiating session saw both parties at the table for over 11 hours. Many proposals were exchanged on retirement and insurance issues but no resolution was had on either subject."
6/24/10 - "Days two and three were spent primarily focused on proposals and discussion about retirement and insurance issues. The Company was largely unwilling to engage in meaningful discussion on any other topics. We were unable to close a significant gap in how far we are apart on these issues. Proposals from the Company insisted on drastic concessions in our medical insurance plan including:
In exchange for these massive cuts in our health insurance plan the company was only willing to offer a paltry 1.05% increase in the matching level of the 13+ year longevity step on our retirement plan. This retirement and insurance package represented significant concessions even when measured against our current contract’s provisions. These concessions, combined with no movement on the other important issues we presented, caused the week’s negotiations to end with no TA."
Next thing we new, we were put on ice by the NMB and within the week came announcement that the company had purchased Mesaba. You will notice that things were going great in negotiations right up until the last day. That was when the company came at us with the Retirement and Insurance plans.
Notice the similarities between those negotiations and what is currently going on. That whole process was just over 3 months, we are now over 2 months in to this process. We had multiple "deadlines" come up and we continued talks because of "momentum". At the end of 2 months of negotiating we had a lot of closed sections, but the big items (Insurance, Retirement, Compensation) remained open. Those same items are open today, just over 2 months in to negotiations.
Our MEC and our pilots thought now was the right time for picketing because we have seen this whole thing play out before. Yes, I know Pinnacle isn't alone in this anymore, but we are still fighting with the same management team. The sooner we all agree that the company probably isn't playing nice, the better for everybody.[/FONT]
I had been trying to stay silent during this, but I am sick of some people on here acting as if the Pinnacle MEC doesn't know what they are doing. I am sick of the "it's not our first rodeo" comments from Mesaba guys. I am sick of hearing how close we are to a contract. I want to give a little perspective to the people who have not dealt with the Pinnacle Management for very long.
Pretty much everybody reading this will know that the Pinnacle pilots reached a TA in August 2009. In September, we voted that garbage down and started a new period in our negotiations. The next few months were spent voting new members in to the MEC, doing a poll to figure out what the pilots wanted in a new contract, deciding on a path for negotiations, and cleaning up the language in the failed TA. The language was of course very important, since our management loves to interpret things differently than how we do.
Actual negotiations didn't really start until the week of March 8th. Negotiations then went on for 4 of the next 5 weeks. We heard from management how much they wanted to get this done. We bought it, again, or at least faked it well enough to act in good faith. Here are direct quotes from the negotiating committee updates that we got over the next few months.
Oh, and the gaps between some of these dates is because of NMB availability.
3/16/10 - "Today, we started with our second of four scheduled weeks of negotiations with the company. We are building upon the good momentum established during last week’s session where many of the lagging problems were resolved. Additionally, we were able to agree in concept on many other issues that are in various states of drafting."
4/09/10 - "While there was considerable anticipation that a deal might be reached this week, in the end there was too much work remaining on the outstanding sections. A mutual decision was made to extend our direct negotiations period beyond the originally agreed to four week period in order to preserve the momentum we have generated thus far."
4/9/10 - "After the review of the outstanding issues, we started with provisions regarding pay and scheduling shortfalls when returning to service from leaves including medical, OJI, military, and personal. We continued the positive momentum and completed work in several other areas that needed improvement including call in honest provisions, home study allotments, as well as several scheduling issues."
5/11/10 - "The past several weeks have been productive in finding resolution to many of the outstanding issues identified in the pilot group polling and editorial review. The list of open items has been paired down significantly even from where we were just a month ago. Continuous updates will be broadcast throughout the week detailing our progress at this week’s session. Stand by for more updates."
5/11/10 - [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Today’s contract negotiating session with the Company was very productive. Early in the day, we secured final agreement on all of the proposed changes to both Section 1 (Scope) and the Parent Letter that binds Pinnacle Corp. to our pilot group. The changes in these two documents, while not immense, clarify, strengthen, and fill the gaps of the agreement made in the first TA. We also clarified language in Section 3 (Compensation) that makes it more clear on the conditions required for the listed carriers to be included in the industry average.
Later in the day we continued work on a multifaceted package deal that focuses on a number of pilot availability issues, including eleventh day off for reserves, junior assigning, extensions, and a number of other reserve issues. The topics within this package have been narrowed down significantly and we will continue working on this Wednesday morning. Successful resolution of this package will significantly reduce our list of open issues and allow us to move forward with the final issues."
5/13/10 - "Progressive movement towards a successor tentative agreement was made today. Resolution was had on all remaining vacation issues and provisions were agreed to that improve the administrative and structural issues with the reserve bucket lists. Provisions that allow pilot group visibility and association oversight of the bucket list were also added. Difficulty persisted and little progress was made on benefit issues, such as the retirement and insurance sections as well as several pilot availability issues that are on the table.
6/22/10 - "We started the day reviewing and clarifying the list of open issues still needing resolution to achieve a comprehensive agreement. We then proceeded to exchange proposals. Throughout the day, we were able to reach agreement on some issues including final resolution on pay scales and duration but we remain distant on several others.
6/23/10 - "Today’s negotiating session saw both parties at the table for over 11 hours. Many proposals were exchanged on retirement and insurance issues but no resolution was had on either subject."
6/24/10 - "Days two and three were spent primarily focused on proposals and discussion about retirement and insurance issues. The Company was largely unwilling to engage in meaningful discussion on any other topics. We were unable to close a significant gap in how far we are apart on these issues. Proposals from the Company insisted on drastic concessions in our medical insurance plan including:
[*] 200% - 280% increase in the cost of single coverage premiums
[*] 130% - 140% increase in the cost of family coverage premiums
[*] 200% - 300% increase in the cost of single coverage deductibles
[*] 170% - 240% increase in the cost of family coverage deductibles
[*] $800 - $1300 increase in the yearly out of pocket maximum for singles
[*] $1600 - $2400 increase in the yearly out of pocket maximum for families
[*] Up to 550% increase in the cost of prescriptions (30-day supply)
[*] Up to 1100% increase in the cost of prescriptions (90-day supply)
[*] Cut the lifetime maximum to $1.5 million (down from the formerly agreed upon $3.0 million)
In exchange for these massive cuts in our health insurance plan the company was only willing to offer a paltry 1.05% increase in the matching level of the 13+ year longevity step on our retirement plan. This retirement and insurance package represented significant concessions even when measured against our current contract’s provisions. These concessions, combined with no movement on the other important issues we presented, caused the week’s negotiations to end with no TA."
Next thing we new, we were put on ice by the NMB and within the week came announcement that the company had purchased Mesaba. You will notice that things were going great in negotiations right up until the last day. That was when the company came at us with the Retirement and Insurance plans.
Notice the similarities between those negotiations and what is currently going on. That whole process was just over 3 months, we are now over 2 months in to this process. We had multiple "deadlines" come up and we continued talks because of "momentum". At the end of 2 months of negotiating we had a lot of closed sections, but the big items (Insurance, Retirement, Compensation) remained open. Those same items are open today, just over 2 months in to negotiations.
Our MEC and our pilots thought now was the right time for picketing because we have seen this whole thing play out before. Yes, I know Pinnacle isn't alone in this anymore, but we are still fighting with the same management team. The sooner we all agree that the company probably isn't playing nice, the better for everybody.[/FONT]