Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight..
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Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
I'm veeeeeeeeery careful about where my food is sourced, but MOST of us aren't.
My local market, who specializes in local produce, dairy, meats and has a good salsa selection is in bankruptcy protection. Whereas the national chain down the street who ships in the cheapest produce, lowest cost dairy, meat-in-a-tube-from-god-knows-where and that has 8 varieties of "Pace Picante" (who eats that crap?!) is doing swimmingly.
I'm veeeeeeeeery careful about where my food is sourced, but MOST of us aren't.
My local market, who specializes in local produce, dairy, meats and has a good salsa selection is in bankruptcy protection. Whereas the national chain down the street who ships in the cheapest produce, lowest cost dairy, meat-in-a-tube-from-god-knows-where and that has 8 varieties of "Pace Picante" (who eats that crap?!) is doing swimmingly.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
But I see what you are getting at.
Probably farmed salmon from Washington.
But I see what you are getting at.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Oh, no, didn't mean to suggest so. I've never been to Israel, but it's my understanding that they employ some extremely sharp and well trained people to do their profiling, and that presumably having the right (or wrong) amount of pigmentation has very little to do with it.
Again, agree entirely. One suspects that they employ a pretty sophisticated matrix of information to determine who to "profile". What's beyond argument, as far as I can see, is their results. Now, if you put it to me as an ignorant layman, I would guess that the difference has to do with cost and PC considerations beyond simply "that boy don't look rite!" I will go out on a limb and say they don't pay $8/hour to man the x-ray machine in Tel Aviv and that the uniforms involved aren't an hilarious mock-Authoritay joke in electric blue, but a real sign of serious training and "Meaning Business".
Oh, no, didn't mean to suggest so. I've never been to Israel, but it's my understanding that they employ some extremely sharp and well trained people to do their profiling, and that presumably having the right (or wrong) amount of pigmentation has very little to do with it.
Again, agree entirely. One suspects that they employ a pretty sophisticated matrix of information to determine who to "profile". What's beyond argument, as far as I can see, is their results. Now, if you put it to me as an ignorant layman, I would guess that the difference has to do with cost and PC considerations beyond simply "that boy don't look rite!" I will go out on a limb and say they don't pay $8/hour to man the x-ray machine in Tel Aviv and that the uniforms involved aren't an hilarious mock-Authoritay joke in electric blue, but a real sign of serious training and "Meaning Business".
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Now were aren't going to get into a flattened hotel counting contests are we? And the last bus bombing in the US was on the set of Speed.
Why didn't the headlines read "Terrorist suck again at blowing up a US plane." You know something a bit more accurate to what happened.
Now were aren't going to get into a flattened hotel counting contests are we? And the last bus bombing in the US was on the set of Speed.
Why didn't the headlines read "Terrorist suck again at blowing up a US plane." You know something a bit more accurate to what happened.
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Exactly. Over here, that's what people expect to look at. But the bloodlines run so parallel, it's not physical attributes. But Joe Six Pack in the US expects it to be physical. "Why is that guy with the headdress (who is actually a peace-loving Sikh Indian) strolling thru unabated while that guy in the Lark mobility device (who would be my choice, if I were a terrorist, to act as a pigeon to smuggle materials onboard) is getting the 'once over' from the TSA?"
Basically, at least in my opinion, counterterrorism is largely like squeezing a big ball of Playdoh. We'll ratchet down on the big clump, but it'll manifest itself in non-obvious areas.
"Screen All Middle Easterners!"
Well, Nigeria isn't the Middle East... FAIL.
"Screen All Muslims!"
Well, it's not like you couldn't lie on your pre-boarding questionnaire about religious affiliation.
"Give all people that look Middle Eastern secondary screening!!"
Well, it's not like the people involved with 9/11 or the latest attempt looked all that Middle Eastern, hell the last guy wasn't even Middle Eastern. Most of the guys involved with 9/11, I think, were North African.
We've got a really complex problem which calls for effective solutions.
Exactly. Over here, that's what people expect to look at. But the bloodlines run so parallel, it's not physical attributes. But Joe Six Pack in the US expects it to be physical. "Why is that guy with the headdress (who is actually a peace-loving Sikh Indian) strolling thru unabated while that guy in the Lark mobility device (who would be my choice, if I were a terrorist, to act as a pigeon to smuggle materials onboard) is getting the 'once over' from the TSA?"
Basically, at least in my opinion, counterterrorism is largely like squeezing a big ball of Playdoh. We'll ratchet down on the big clump, but it'll manifest itself in non-obvious areas.
"Screen All Middle Easterners!"
Well, Nigeria isn't the Middle East... FAIL.
"Screen All Muslims!"
Well, it's not like you couldn't lie on your pre-boarding questionnaire about religious affiliation.
"Give all people that look Middle Eastern secondary screening!!"
Well, it's not like the people involved with 9/11 or the latest attempt looked all that Middle Eastern, hell the last guy wasn't even Middle Eastern. Most of the guys involved with 9/11, I think, were North African.
We've got a really complex problem which calls for effective solutions.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
I should have specified that I was talking about airliners, but "stuff" sounds so much cooler.
That said, by all indications I've read thusfar, if junior hadn't freaked out and screwed it up, we'd be picking up the pieces and wondering what the heck happened as we speak. Thinking the TSA is a huge joke (which it is) doesn't mean the threat isn't real. I guess I just meant to point out that El Al has to my knowledge never (or, let's say for purposes of argument recently) had a jet brought down. One suspects that this is not for lack of trying on the part of the black hats.
Which leaves the question of what they're doing that we aren't. And the attendant questions of why we're unwilling or unable to do the same.
I should have specified that I was talking about airliners, but "stuff" sounds so much cooler.
That said, by all indications I've read thusfar, if junior hadn't freaked out and screwed it up, we'd be picking up the pieces and wondering what the heck happened as we speak. Thinking the TSA is a huge joke (which it is) doesn't mean the threat isn't real. I guess I just meant to point out that El Al has to my knowledge never (or, let's say for purposes of argument recently) had a jet brought down. One suspects that this is not for lack of trying on the part of the black hats.
Which leaves the question of what they're doing that we aren't. And the attendant questions of why we're unwilling or unable to do the same.
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Even flying to TLV not on El Al, you go thru secondary at the gate regardless of what airline you're flying. Strict one carry-on rule, shoes come off with a pat-down.
I don't think people would go for that to fly from Fresno to San Francisco.
Even flying to TLV not on El Al, you go thru secondary at the gate regardless of what airline you're flying. Strict one carry-on rule, shoes come off with a pat-down.
I don't think people would go for that to fly from Fresno to San Francisco.
stesta5074
Well-Known Member
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Everyone you mentioned was muslim. Its not a racial or national issue as your argument states. By mentioning a group of muslims you defeated your own argument against religious profiling. Political correctness will not work when dead Americans are falling from the skies in our airplanes. Until then we can have these trite arguments. We hope it never happens, but I don't think that our hopes matter when it comes to terrorists.
This man who almost destroyed the Northwest airplane is getting skin grafts for his burns. SKIN GRAFTS! Regular American citizens can't even get basic health care and this is what we provide for admitted terrorists. He even has a public defender who has advised him against discussing his accomplices at this point!.
I hate what I see happening in my country and we will not accept it forever.
Everyone you mentioned was muslim. Its not a racial or national issue as your argument states. By mentioning a group of muslims you defeated your own argument against religious profiling. Political correctness will not work when dead Americans are falling from the skies in our airplanes. Until then we can have these trite arguments. We hope it never happens, but I don't think that our hopes matter when it comes to terrorists.
This man who almost destroyed the Northwest airplane is getting skin grafts for his burns. SKIN GRAFTS! Regular American citizens can't even get basic health care and this is what we provide for admitted terrorists. He even has a public defender who has advised him against discussing his accomplices at this point!.
I hate what I see happening in my country and we will not accept it forever.
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Who says he's getting skin grafts? A reputable source or "OMGZ, forward this email, this is ka-raaaaazay!" emails?
Let's throttle back the hysteria, glean all of the information we can from this dork and let the system work.
Yes, I'd love to string this guy up from the balls over a pool of sharks with laser beams, but then we'd lose a lot of potentially important intelligence.
Who says he's getting skin grafts? A reputable source or "OMGZ, forward this email, this is ka-raaaaazay!" emails?
Let's throttle back the hysteria, glean all of the information we can from this dork and let the system work.
Yes, I'd love to string this guy up from the balls over a pool of sharks with laser beams, but then we'd lose a lot of potentially important intelligence.
sopdan
Well-Known Member
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Detroit News, for one
http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...roit-flight-terrorism-suspect-in-court-Monday
As far as profiling/Israeli procedures... it seems that in this specific case, there were enough flags to warrant a little more investigation into the guy.
Detroit News, for one
http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...roit-flight-terrorism-suspect-in-court-Monday
As far as profiling/Israeli procedures... it seems that in this specific case, there were enough flags to warrant a little more investigation into the guy.
sopdan
Well-Known Member
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Oh, and it sometimes is annoying how news organizations try to be so careful with their wording. (this from the previous link, the photo caption)
Believed to have traveled through Schiphol? Did he possibly get beamed up enroute or something?
Oh, and it sometimes is annoying how news organizations try to be so careful with their wording. (this from the previous link, the photo caption)
Believed to have traveled through Schiphol? Did he possibly get beamed up enroute or something?
stesta5074
Well-Known Member
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
I get the anti-hysteria thing you're saying. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this is the 'isolated' incident Obama says it is when Al Qaeda is involved. I think they are getting smarter and learning our tactics. I hope I'm wrong.
I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion but politics is virtually inseparable from aviation these days :beer:
I get the anti-hysteria thing you're saying. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think this is the 'isolated' incident Obama says it is when Al Qaeda is involved. I think they are getting smarter and learning our tactics. I hope I'm wrong.
I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion but politics is virtually inseparable from aviation these days :beer:
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Aviation is totally separable from politics.
You've got to remember who the speeches intended target was.
The average Joe can continue about his life. We need vigilant people, not vigilantes traipsing around the aircraft.
Case in point. I wear a sweater in the cabin. If I'm on "last break", chances are I'll be going back to the cockpit about 35 to 40 minutes prior to landing. The last thing we need is some dude jumping up and putting me in a chokehold because I'm standing in first class because the TSA's rules du'jour say you must be seated 60 minutes prior to landing.
Of course that may have changed.
Be alert, be vigilant, but the terrorists want us walking about in absolute hysteria about their next move. Terrorism isn't about killing people, it's about killing people and our reaction. They want us scared, afraid, gnawing at our own limbs.
Aviation is totally separable from politics.
You've got to remember who the speeches intended target was.
The average Joe can continue about his life. We need vigilant people, not vigilantes traipsing around the aircraft.
Case in point. I wear a sweater in the cabin. If I'm on "last break", chances are I'll be going back to the cockpit about 35 to 40 minutes prior to landing. The last thing we need is some dude jumping up and putting me in a chokehold because I'm standing in first class because the TSA's rules du'jour say you must be seated 60 minutes prior to landing.
Of course that may have changed.
Be alert, be vigilant, but the terrorists want us walking about in absolute hysteria about their next move. Terrorism isn't about killing people, it's about killing people and our reaction. They want us scared, afraid, gnawing at our own limbs.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
No do I don't think that or believe that. I am just saying we have gone overboard trying to appease certain groups that is actually hurting security. (as Mike D said it has gone to anti-profilling). I am sick of hearing we can't do this or that because it may offend group xyz.
No do I don't think that or believe that. I am just saying we have gone overboard trying to appease certain groups that is actually hurting security. (as Mike D said it has gone to anti-profilling). I am sick of hearing we can't do this or that because it may offend group xyz.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
I gotta ask this question because I know what it's like up here in Canada...
How much screening is done to cargo being loaded on passenger flights?
I gotta ask this question because I know what it's like up here in Canada...
How much screening is done to cargo being loaded on passenger flights?
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
-mini
Depends on if the check clears or not.....
-mini
Rosstafari
Likes tacos
Re: Passenger attempts to blow up Northwest Airlines flight.
Heheh. You think that prisoner medical care is any good? It's laughable, pretty much third world stuff except they'll sometimes have a doctor who's feeling charitable and is willing to work "below his level". Those "skin grafts" will probably be little more than slapping some duct tape over some burn cream.
OMG just like the Constitution says! Same as the medical care, if you think this guy's getting quality defense services provided by an expert, willing lawyer, you've got another thing coming. And probably watch too much TV.
Unless they shut Gitmo down in time. That's been the most effective interrogation technique, I've heard.
Heheh. You think that prisoner medical care is any good? It's laughable, pretty much third world stuff except they'll sometimes have a doctor who's feeling charitable and is willing to work "below his level". Those "skin grafts" will probably be little more than slapping some duct tape over some burn cream.
OMG just like the Constitution says! Same as the medical care, if you think this guy's getting quality defense services provided by an expert, willing lawyer, you've got another thing coming. And probably watch too much TV.
Unless they shut Gitmo down in time. That's been the most effective interrogation technique, I've heard.