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- Thread starter Eagle
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EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
I had to sell some of my skydiving gear to buy new clothes when I started instructing. Now I'm going to have to sell something else to be able to afford to wash them...freakin laundromats are getting expensive!
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
My point was is that anyone who can't find some cash to buy clothes in today's world is lying to somebody! It's all about proper money management.
Especially someone who can afford an expensive flight school.
If clothes will get you a better job then consider it an investment. Put it on a Visa.
"What? clothes? I only use Visa for Papa John's!"
It is amazing what people can justify
Especially someone who can afford an expensive flight school.
If clothes will get you a better job then consider it an investment. Put it on a Visa.
"What? clothes? I only use Visa for Papa John's!"
It is amazing what people can justify
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Oh, I agree. I wasn't kidding!
naunga
New Member
Well I'm going to chime in here.
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I don't know seems kinda shady to blow someone off because they just happen to be wearing a t-shirt at the time.
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You're right. It's unfair, but...that's the way the business world works, and lets face it airlines are big business. The saying "clothes makes the man" is true. Because "Joe" doesn't wear a sign around his neck that says, "I look like a dirt bag, but I busted my ass to get my training done", Joe needs to give people a reason to talk to him. Then he can tell them about himself. Clothing and image is analogous to a cover letter. The cover letter gives the reader a reason to continue on to the resume. If Joe looks semi-professional then people looking for professionals will be drawn to him.
Now, I will say that I don't think that you have to be dressed to the nines all the time. The key is to dress to the situation. If, in Eagle's example, you're flying a charter flight. Look like a charter pilot. You're instructing on the weekends, well you can probably get away with something less than a shirt and tie.
Also, as a young guy Joe needs to work harder on his image because he's already lost points simply because he's 22. Again is it fair? Nope. Is it reality sure is.
So, if Joe wants to get a job making good money (any job not just flying), Joe needs to work his budget and his image. If Joe can't find the money in his budget, then Joe could request gift certificates and clothes for his b-day etc. Joe also could check out the Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift stores for nice(er) clothing. I mean I've found almost new Ralph Lauren shirts for $3.
The bottom line is this: you want to work as a pilot (or anything else). You need to try to look the part. At 22 nobody is expecting Joe to be shopping at Brooks Brothers, but at 22 Joe cannot afford, from a career standpoint, to look like he's 22. I think the key is to look neat and clean, and there are lots of ways to do this without spending a ton of cash.
Later.
Naunga
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I don't know seems kinda shady to blow someone off because they just happen to be wearing a t-shirt at the time.
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You're right. It's unfair, but...that's the way the business world works, and lets face it airlines are big business. The saying "clothes makes the man" is true. Because "Joe" doesn't wear a sign around his neck that says, "I look like a dirt bag, but I busted my ass to get my training done", Joe needs to give people a reason to talk to him. Then he can tell them about himself. Clothing and image is analogous to a cover letter. The cover letter gives the reader a reason to continue on to the resume. If Joe looks semi-professional then people looking for professionals will be drawn to him.
Now, I will say that I don't think that you have to be dressed to the nines all the time. The key is to dress to the situation. If, in Eagle's example, you're flying a charter flight. Look like a charter pilot. You're instructing on the weekends, well you can probably get away with something less than a shirt and tie.
Also, as a young guy Joe needs to work harder on his image because he's already lost points simply because he's 22. Again is it fair? Nope. Is it reality sure is.
So, if Joe wants to get a job making good money (any job not just flying), Joe needs to work his budget and his image. If Joe can't find the money in his budget, then Joe could request gift certificates and clothes for his b-day etc. Joe also could check out the Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift stores for nice(er) clothing. I mean I've found almost new Ralph Lauren shirts for $3.
The bottom line is this: you want to work as a pilot (or anything else). You need to try to look the part. At 22 nobody is expecting Joe to be shopping at Brooks Brothers, but at 22 Joe cannot afford, from a career standpoint, to look like he's 22. I think the key is to look neat and clean, and there are lots of ways to do this without spending a ton of cash.
Later.
Naunga
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
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My point was is that anyone who can't find some cash to buy clothes in today's world is lying to somebody! It's all about proper money management.
Especially someone who can afford an expensive flight school.
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BINGO! Well said JT!
If (using your scenario and also using the guy who said "I never dress professionally") you can afford flight lessons, or have the credit to get the LOANS for flight lessons, then you can afford ONE pair of khaki's from Walmart, ONE dress shirt, ONE tie and ONE pair of nice shoes for the time when you walk through any employers door to ask of a job.
This "I only wear jeans, shorts and t-shirts because that's all I can afford" song and dance is crap.
It's a choice.
You CHOOSE to wear jeans. A pair of khaki's cost the same as some jeans nowadays.
You CHOOSE to look like a slob. And if that's the case -- don't cry when you don't get offered an INTERVIEW much less a job.
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R2F
My point was is that anyone who can't find some cash to buy clothes in today's world is lying to somebody! It's all about proper money management.
Especially someone who can afford an expensive flight school.
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BINGO! Well said JT!
If (using your scenario and also using the guy who said "I never dress professionally") you can afford flight lessons, or have the credit to get the LOANS for flight lessons, then you can afford ONE pair of khaki's from Walmart, ONE dress shirt, ONE tie and ONE pair of nice shoes for the time when you walk through any employers door to ask of a job.
This "I only wear jeans, shorts and t-shirts because that's all I can afford" song and dance is crap.
It's a choice.
You CHOOSE to wear jeans. A pair of khaki's cost the same as some jeans nowadays.
You CHOOSE to look like a slob. And if that's the case -- don't cry when you don't get offered an INTERVIEW much less a job.
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R2F
Hootie
Old Skool
Wow, some people think that if you are not wearing your replica uniform you automatically must be wearing a hooters t-shirt, cut offs, and flip flops. I know there are guys out there who would rather not wear that uniform, but those who think if you dress the part you act the part, right.......Do you feel like a real big airline pilot when you are filling yout "jet" with 100LL on your solo cross country? If you do, then you probably feel cool when you think your impressing the fbo hottie, when you say "25 gallons please, and is there a phone where I can call my dispatcher."? Don't get me wrong, I would go to a school like FSI and wear the uniforms, but I would be changing in my car, (maybe even the plane).
UHG! and when I hear somebody say they are giving up drinking "just to be safe", have at least a little fun. Give up drunk driving man. But just because the industry is in the sh*tter right now is no reason to stay at home and study your latest jepp update just to to advance your career .00004%. They already pay you next to nothing, don't sell your life for them.
UHG! and when I hear somebody say they are giving up drinking "just to be safe", have at least a little fun. Give up drunk driving man. But just because the industry is in the sh*tter right now is no reason to stay at home and study your latest jepp update just to to advance your career .00004%. They already pay you next to nothing, don't sell your life for them.
Amen JT and R2F!! Come on guys - nobody said that CFI's had to wear Armani suits every lesson but I was just at Wal Mart and took a stroll thru the clothing section - you can buy a pair of khakis, 4 decent looking short sleeve polo type shirts, and a pair of shoes for about 80 bucks! Yeah that's a little bit of change for a starving CFI but like the others have said - if you've just spent 20 or 30 or 40 thousand dollars on flight training - don't try and pull this crap that you can't afford 80 bucks for clothes.
Jason
Jason
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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Don't get me wrong, I would go to a school like FSI and wear the uniforms, but I would be changing in my car, (maybe even the plane).
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You don't get it, do you? Students at, for example FSI, don't wear uniforms to "be cool." THEY ARE REQUIRED, as in, NOT OPTIONAL! I hated them, and I think most people do, but they do have good reason to require them. It keeps everyone looking professional, and everyone looking the same- which is the environment one will be in when they reach the airlines.
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Do you feel like a real big airline pilot when you are filling yout "jet" with 100LL on your solo cross country? If you do, then you probably feel cool when you think your impressing the fbo hottie, when you say "25 gallons please, and is there a phone where I can call my dispatcher."?
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My god you're an ass.
Don't get me wrong, I would go to a school like FSI and wear the uniforms, but I would be changing in my car, (maybe even the plane).
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You don't get it, do you? Students at, for example FSI, don't wear uniforms to "be cool." THEY ARE REQUIRED, as in, NOT OPTIONAL! I hated them, and I think most people do, but they do have good reason to require them. It keeps everyone looking professional, and everyone looking the same- which is the environment one will be in when they reach the airlines.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you feel like a real big airline pilot when you are filling yout "jet" with 100LL on your solo cross country? If you do, then you probably feel cool when you think your impressing the fbo hottie, when you say "25 gallons please, and is there a phone where I can call my dispatcher."?
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My god you're an ass.
Hootie
Old Skool
[ QUOTE ]
You don't get it, do you? Students at, for example FSI, don't wear uniforms to "be cool." THEY ARE REQUIRED, as in, NOT OPTIONAL! I hated them, and I think most people do, but they do have good reason to require them. It keeps everyone looking professional, and everyone looking the same- which is the environment one will be in when they reach the airlines.
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Actually I do get it, but I would ONLY wear one at a top notch school like FSI. But I would still be changing in my car, Im sorry if I don't have your pride, but I am not wearing it into the quick-e-mart.
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My god you're an ass.
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True that.
You don't get it, do you? Students at, for example FSI, don't wear uniforms to "be cool." THEY ARE REQUIRED, as in, NOT OPTIONAL! I hated them, and I think most people do, but they do have good reason to require them. It keeps everyone looking professional, and everyone looking the same- which is the environment one will be in when they reach the airlines.
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Actually I do get it, but I would ONLY wear one at a top notch school like FSI. But I would still be changing in my car, Im sorry if I don't have your pride, but I am not wearing it into the quick-e-mart.
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My god you're an ass.
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True that.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
I personally don't like the way uniforms look (black and white). I don't mind the FSA ones (blue and black). I think an instructor will look a lot better in khackis, a polo, nice watch and good pair of shoes.
This would make them look like a decent dressed golfer. Most of the PGA Tour players look great, much rather see a guy dressed like that than a person in a tie and white or blue shirt and black pants. UGLY.
This would make them look like a decent dressed golfer. Most of the PGA Tour players look great, much rather see a guy dressed like that than a person in a tie and white or blue shirt and black pants. UGLY.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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I think an instructor will look a lot better in khackis, a polo, nice watch and good pair of shoes.
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Luckily, thats the "uniform" I get to wear at my current job. Sure beats the hell outta the "monkey suit" at FSI.
I think an instructor will look a lot better in khackis, a polo, nice watch and good pair of shoes.
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Luckily, thats the "uniform" I get to wear at my current job. Sure beats the hell outta the "monkey suit" at FSI.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Hey, now....let's not knock Joe simply because he is poor. Is it really irresponsible to go really far into debt to get where you want to go? I know a guy from high school that's gone nearly $150,000 in debt to go to medical school....and he's not done yet!! Some of us actually have to do this flight training thing dollar by dollar, lesson by lesson, and some of us have actually had to do it broke, with families, etc, etc.
I'm not justifying joe's "unprofessional behavior", or anything like that...not even going into that. But don't turn this into class warfare.
I'm not justifying joe's "unprofessional behavior", or anything like that...not even going into that. But don't turn this into class warfare.
IrishSheepdog
Sitting in the median
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and when I hear somebody say they are giving up drinking "just to be safe", have at least a little fun. Give up drunk driving man. But just because the industry is in the sh*tter right now is no reason to stay at home and study your latest jepp update just to to advance your career .00004%. They already pay you next to nothing, don't sell your life for them.
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Who says you can't have fun if you don't drink? I'm confused here... does drinking suddenly make everything fun?
People say and do dumb things when they are drunk. Well at least I do. So I choose not to drink very much, if at all. I enjoy being in control of myself, instead of making an ass of myself.
and when I hear somebody say they are giving up drinking "just to be safe", have at least a little fun. Give up drunk driving man. But just because the industry is in the sh*tter right now is no reason to stay at home and study your latest jepp update just to to advance your career .00004%. They already pay you next to nothing, don't sell your life for them.
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Who says you can't have fun if you don't drink? I'm confused here... does drinking suddenly make everything fun?
People say and do dumb things when they are drunk. Well at least I do. So I choose not to drink very much, if at all. I enjoy being in control of myself, instead of making an ass of myself.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
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$150,000 in debt to go to medical school
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True but what are his odds at getting a good-to-well paying job as soon as he walks out of the med-school's doors? I'd guess probably nearly 80-90% And if he decides to work in a rural or needy area he may even get those loans forgiven.
What are the chances of a 300 hour CP-MEL/IA walking into United and landing a FO's position? Hell for that matter any regional?
$150,000 in debt to go to medical school
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True but what are his odds at getting a good-to-well paying job as soon as he walks out of the med-school's doors? I'd guess probably nearly 80-90% And if he decides to work in a rural or needy area he may even get those loans forgiven.
What are the chances of a 300 hour CP-MEL/IA walking into United and landing a FO's position? Hell for that matter any regional?
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
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Who says you can't have fun if you don't drink? I'm confused here... does drinking suddenly make everything fun?
People say and do dumb things when they are drunk. Well at least I do. So I choose not to drink very much, if at all. I enjoy being in control of myself, instead of making an ass of myself.
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AMEN and DITTO!! I limit myself to two of whatever I'm drinking alcohol wise.... one if I start to feel it... and if I'm feeling it - I'm not driving.
Somebody please TRY to explain what is "fun" about drinking to the point that you are impared to operate.... anything... waking up with a hangover... literally pissing your money away.. and acting like a jackass (YES - you DO act like a jackass when you are drunk - everybody does) and possibly throwing up.
Believe me - I know ALL about it. I've been there way too many times and I can tell you from experience that it ain't "fun".
[/soapbox]
Who says you can't have fun if you don't drink? I'm confused here... does drinking suddenly make everything fun?
People say and do dumb things when they are drunk. Well at least I do. So I choose not to drink very much, if at all. I enjoy being in control of myself, instead of making an ass of myself.
[/ QUOTE ]
AMEN and DITTO!! I limit myself to two of whatever I'm drinking alcohol wise.... one if I start to feel it... and if I'm feeling it - I'm not driving.
Somebody please TRY to explain what is "fun" about drinking to the point that you are impared to operate.... anything... waking up with a hangover... literally pissing your money away.. and acting like a jackass (YES - you DO act like a jackass when you are drunk - everybody does) and possibly throwing up.
Believe me - I know ALL about it. I've been there way too many times and I can tell you from experience that it ain't "fun".
[/soapbox]
averyrm
Well-Known Member
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and acting like a jackass (YES - you DO act like a jackass when you are drunk - everybody does) and possibly throwing up.
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If everyone doesn't have to drink to have fun, maybe everyone doesn't act like a jackass when they do drink...
Blanket statements never work.
If what you do works for you and doesn't harm others, keep on keepin on, there's no reason to attack other people's decisions regarding alcohol because you choose the opposite.
and acting like a jackass (YES - you DO act like a jackass when you are drunk - everybody does) and possibly throwing up.
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If everyone doesn't have to drink to have fun, maybe everyone doesn't act like a jackass when they do drink...
Blanket statements never work.
If what you do works for you and doesn't harm others, keep on keepin on, there's no reason to attack other people's decisions regarding alcohol because you choose the opposite.
iceman21
Well-Known Member
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I'm not justifying joe's "unprofessional behavior"
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This is the last time that I am going to beat the horse that is already dead.
I understand the realm of professionalism, however, professionalism does not hinge on what someone is wearing. Although it is a piece of the pie, it is not the whole pie. In my case, yeah I am joe, I am pretty sure that I didn't give off a good first impression, but that first impression faded after my first day there. Was it really "unprofessional behavior" of me not to dress a bit better. I could have put some clothes on a credit card, although I am still learning the lesson of bad credit management, but I don't have a credit card. We scraped by on my student loan taking enough to pay the rent and bills so I wouldn't have to borrow too much. But my "unprofessional behavior" in fact landed me a job, when 3-4 resumes roll across the director desk, each one of them having 2-3 time the amount of time and dual given as I do.
I'm not justifying joe's "unprofessional behavior"
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This is the last time that I am going to beat the horse that is already dead.
I understand the realm of professionalism, however, professionalism does not hinge on what someone is wearing. Although it is a piece of the pie, it is not the whole pie. In my case, yeah I am joe, I am pretty sure that I didn't give off a good first impression, but that first impression faded after my first day there. Was it really "unprofessional behavior" of me not to dress a bit better. I could have put some clothes on a credit card, although I am still learning the lesson of bad credit management, but I don't have a credit card. We scraped by on my student loan taking enough to pay the rent and bills so I wouldn't have to borrow too much. But my "unprofessional behavior" in fact landed me a job, when 3-4 resumes roll across the director desk, each one of them having 2-3 time the amount of time and dual given as I do.
Snow
'Not a new member'
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Regarding uniforms, I think that most of those students who wear them wish that they didn't have to. I know that I heard a lot of complaints
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Bah, it won't be a problem for me, pretty much all the schools here public and private have to wear uniforms. In fact the FSA pants look exsactly like the ones we wore at school only we had a blue shirt, blazer and striped tie.
I do some computer tuteing on the side and I wear a shirt an tie for that, just because it makes me feel more professional and makes the customer feel like I actually know what I'm doing lol
I tend to dress casual / comfortable or dress up I don't really have an 'inbetween'.
Regarding uniforms, I think that most of those students who wear them wish that they didn't have to. I know that I heard a lot of complaints
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Bah, it won't be a problem for me, pretty much all the schools here public and private have to wear uniforms. In fact the FSA pants look exsactly like the ones we wore at school only we had a blue shirt, blazer and striped tie.
I do some computer tuteing on the side and I wear a shirt an tie for that, just because it makes me feel more professional and makes the customer feel like I actually know what I'm doing lol
I tend to dress casual / comfortable or dress up I don't really have an 'inbetween'.
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