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- Thread starter Eagle
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ready2fly
Well-Known Member
My doc perscribed Zyban (actually it was the generic brand called "Welbutrin") AND "The Patch" used at the same time.
He had me start the Welbutrin for a week while still smoking and as if cigarettes didn't already taste like ass - they began to make me gag.... then, after a week, I went on the Patch as well.
I was going to use the "Step Down" kind, but after one packet of the first level and the Welbutrin - I had it licked.
It's no fun, so she needs to know that going in. The webutrin makes most things taste nasty and the patch makes you jittery.... but, you do NOT want to smoke.
Good luck! Drop me a PM if you have any more questions. I'll be glad to offer whatever I can.
R2F
He had me start the Welbutrin for a week while still smoking and as if cigarettes didn't already taste like ass - they began to make me gag.... then, after a week, I went on the Patch as well.
I was going to use the "Step Down" kind, but after one packet of the first level and the Welbutrin - I had it licked.
It's no fun, so she needs to know that going in. The webutrin makes most things taste nasty and the patch makes you jittery.... but, you do NOT want to smoke.
Good luck! Drop me a PM if you have any more questions. I'll be glad to offer whatever I can.
R2F
Hootie
Old Skool
[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, while you are on a trip, you are going to be spending a lot of time outside the airplane with your crew members. This can be a problem because what do smokers normally do immediately after a meal? Light up, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now here is a very valid point, and I agree.
Also I have to say that the I am impressed with the intelligence of this board because this has been a good discussion without flaming (despite me throwing out the word "anal".) I don't smoke but I like to drink and go partying and girling so I give the smokers a break. But my lifestyle has not affected my flying in any way. My underlying problem with the whole smoking topic is how it is related to being a "professional". There are THOUSANDS of "professionals" in america who publically denounce smoking then go and snort some coke, cheat on there wife with a hooker, and go to work drunk. And I just sit back and laugh when some 141 dork tells me he displays a "professional image that the airlines are looking for" when he hops into his 150 heavy in full uniform for an hour of touch and go's with his wannabe AA flight crew bag.
Additionally, while you are on a trip, you are going to be spending a lot of time outside the airplane with your crew members. This can be a problem because what do smokers normally do immediately after a meal? Light up, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now here is a very valid point, and I agree.
Also I have to say that the I am impressed with the intelligence of this board because this has been a good discussion without flaming (despite me throwing out the word "anal".) I don't smoke but I like to drink and go partying and girling so I give the smokers a break. But my lifestyle has not affected my flying in any way. My underlying problem with the whole smoking topic is how it is related to being a "professional". There are THOUSANDS of "professionals" in america who publically denounce smoking then go and snort some coke, cheat on there wife with a hooker, and go to work drunk. And I just sit back and laugh when some 141 dork tells me he displays a "professional image that the airlines are looking for" when he hops into his 150 heavy in full uniform for an hour of touch and go's with his wannabe AA flight crew bag.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And I just sit back and laugh when some 141 dork tells me he displays a "professional image that the airlines are looking for" when he hops into his 150 heavy in full uniform for an hour of touch and go's with his wannabe AA flight crew bag.
[/ QUOTE ]
So much for not flaming, eh? I was a "141 dork" and I wore a "full uniform." I didn't fly a 150, and I didn't have a wannabe AA flight crew bag, but I still take offense to that. Many flight schools make students wear uniforms (they are NOT optional) to display the professional image that companies are looking for. If that makes me a dork, so be it...but we'll see who has the last laugh.
And I just sit back and laugh when some 141 dork tells me he displays a "professional image that the airlines are looking for" when he hops into his 150 heavy in full uniform for an hour of touch and go's with his wannabe AA flight crew bag.
[/ QUOTE ]
So much for not flaming, eh? I was a "141 dork" and I wore a "full uniform." I didn't fly a 150, and I didn't have a wannabe AA flight crew bag, but I still take offense to that. Many flight schools make students wear uniforms (they are NOT optional) to display the professional image that companies are looking for. If that makes me a dork, so be it...but we'll see who has the last laugh.
SkyKingRon
New Member
'Yup, EatSleep, you ex-uniform wearing, 141 dork!!
TOTALLY KIDDING! Good point on the reason why the larger schools have uniforms. Another side benefit is the psychological boost it gives to the wearer. You feel better when you look better (most people anyway) And when you feel better...
IrishSheepdog
Sitting in the median
I WISH my 141 school made instructors wear uniforms. Students too. But that isn't going to happen... too bad. It would really help with some of the professionalism issues there. We have instructors showing up with torn undershirts and sweatpants with sandals to work. It looks like they just rolled out of bed, got in their car, and came to the airport.
I don't like getting caught in an airplane without khakis and a polo on. Call me anal? Sure, if the shoe fits. But I'd rather be anal and as professional as possible when I walk into an FBO shared by top-end corporate, fractional, and charter pilots.
I figure this is a career where you need to be on your best behavior at all times. For that reason I have never touched any drugs, I do not smoke, and I just pretty much quit drinking (I don't like drinking and not having control... A drink or two will not cause major harm IMHO). Not only will those things put the brakes on a career, but they are also potentially dangerous to my health. I plan on keeping my class 1 until age 60...
Geez, I ranted didn't I... sorry
I don't like getting caught in an airplane without khakis and a polo on. Call me anal? Sure, if the shoe fits. But I'd rather be anal and as professional as possible when I walk into an FBO shared by top-end corporate, fractional, and charter pilots.
I figure this is a career where you need to be on your best behavior at all times. For that reason I have never touched any drugs, I do not smoke, and I just pretty much quit drinking (I don't like drinking and not having control... A drink or two will not cause major harm IMHO). Not only will those things put the brakes on a career, but they are also potentially dangerous to my health. I plan on keeping my class 1 until age 60...
Geez, I ranted didn't I... sorry
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Hey, people....this is almost becoming a bashing session, aimed at anyone who smokes, drinks, goes to the club or doesn't wear a uniform while flight instructing.
What about the guy/gal that doesn't want to ever fly for an airline, and they just want to flight instruct. If that person is flight instructing in coastal North Carolina, in 90 degree heat, in a 152 in the bumps....I say let them where shorts and sandals! Is thatr really going to make a difference? If they're not looking to find a job at an airline, it shouldn't hurt them. Besides, just about everybody in coastal NC (or SC, or GA, of FL...) is wearing shorts and sandals in August.
Smoking? Well, I think that in recent years, people are becoming Californicized ( I have a right to say that...I was born, raised, and LOVE California, and I can't wait to get back to the place I spent 22 years...) - meaning that they have the "I don't smoke, so everyone who smokes is an a**hole" mentality. Now, I'm not a smoker, but I'm sure I have a habit or two that may drive other people crazy. And I agree 100% that if you're going to have to sit in a cockpit with someone for 14 hours a day, you need to ensure that it's...um, well....pleasant to be around you. But we all know that you can't always smell smoke on a person ALL the time, instantly....sometimes you need to be pretty close. We're really digging here, in the name of Professionalism.
Drinking? Man, I'll barely touch it. If you don't wanna drink, don't drink. Don't knock grown men and women who are old enough to legally and responsibly enjoy a drink or 5...whatever your limit is. Enough said.
Lastly, I don't know where people started on the "going to the club..." thing. If you wanna have no life, go ahead and be a looser. Myself, I like to have a good time, and I'm not an old man yet!!!
What about the guy/gal that doesn't want to ever fly for an airline, and they just want to flight instruct. If that person is flight instructing in coastal North Carolina, in 90 degree heat, in a 152 in the bumps....I say let them where shorts and sandals! Is thatr really going to make a difference? If they're not looking to find a job at an airline, it shouldn't hurt them. Besides, just about everybody in coastal NC (or SC, or GA, of FL...) is wearing shorts and sandals in August.
Smoking? Well, I think that in recent years, people are becoming Californicized ( I have a right to say that...I was born, raised, and LOVE California, and I can't wait to get back to the place I spent 22 years...) - meaning that they have the "I don't smoke, so everyone who smokes is an a**hole" mentality. Now, I'm not a smoker, but I'm sure I have a habit or two that may drive other people crazy. And I agree 100% that if you're going to have to sit in a cockpit with someone for 14 hours a day, you need to ensure that it's...um, well....pleasant to be around you. But we all know that you can't always smell smoke on a person ALL the time, instantly....sometimes you need to be pretty close. We're really digging here, in the name of Professionalism.
Drinking? Man, I'll barely touch it. If you don't wanna drink, don't drink. Don't knock grown men and women who are old enough to legally and responsibly enjoy a drink or 5...whatever your limit is. Enough said.
Lastly, I don't know where people started on the "going to the club..." thing. If you wanna have no life, go ahead and be a looser. Myself, I like to have a good time, and I'm not an old man yet!!!
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
The flip side of the coin (not down playing personal responsibility here at all) but how professional is it for a flight school to pay a CFI below-poverty-level wages?
There is a gigantic difference between "paying dues" and being exploited. Unfortunately in many more cases than not it's a matter of exploitation, not "paying dues."
If a company values my skills and work so little as to pay me less than a McDonald's hourly employee well, I find that utterly unprofessional.
Does this mean a CFI should show up in sandals, sweat pants and reaking of dirty clothes? Absouloutely not.
But you do get what you pay for and if you pay your employees on the order of bums don't be surprised if that's what you get!
There is a gigantic difference between "paying dues" and being exploited. Unfortunately in many more cases than not it's a matter of exploitation, not "paying dues."
If a company values my skills and work so little as to pay me less than a McDonald's hourly employee well, I find that utterly unprofessional.
Does this mean a CFI should show up in sandals, sweat pants and reaking of dirty clothes? Absouloutely not.
But you do get what you pay for and if you pay your employees on the order of bums don't be surprised if that's what you get!
When I was a CFI, I usually wore a tie because it was a rough time in the industry, like now, and it was a psychological 'pick me up' to put on a fresh shirt and a tie before I drove 45 miles down to RHV and sat around all day hoping a student would walk in. Hopefully, he'd at least fly an hour so I'd have some money for lunch and gas home.
Then my flight school expanded and I had a full schedule. Our chief pilot bought us all shirts and epaulets to impress the big honchos at Asiana with our professionalism. It felt a little weird, but it was pretty convenient. It was optional when the Asiana guys weren't around however. It saved about ten minutes getting dressed in the morning because I didn't have to match a tie with an ironed shirt and matching slacks.
Then I started wearing civilian clothes during my last few months and actually some of my students preferred it because they were a little more psychologically comfortable because the shirt & tie or epaulets uniform looked strict and increased their anxiety.
I think it all depends on your market. You've really got to match your students expectations to make them comfortable.
Meanwhile, when I'm in recurrent training at Delta, it's Doc Marten shoes, an untucked short sleeve button up shirt and khakis because it's kind of refreshing and comfortable.
It all depends.
(And for the poll data, me drinkie, but no smokie -- helps with the industry anxiety!)
Then my flight school expanded and I had a full schedule. Our chief pilot bought us all shirts and epaulets to impress the big honchos at Asiana with our professionalism. It felt a little weird, but it was pretty convenient. It was optional when the Asiana guys weren't around however. It saved about ten minutes getting dressed in the morning because I didn't have to match a tie with an ironed shirt and matching slacks.
Then I started wearing civilian clothes during my last few months and actually some of my students preferred it because they were a little more psychologically comfortable because the shirt & tie or epaulets uniform looked strict and increased their anxiety.
I think it all depends on your market. You've really got to match your students expectations to make them comfortable.
Meanwhile, when I'm in recurrent training at Delta, it's Doc Marten shoes, an untucked short sleeve button up shirt and khakis because it's kind of refreshing and comfortable.
It all depends.
(And for the poll data, me drinkie, but no smokie -- helps with the industry anxiety!)
flyindrumminpilot
New Member
Missing 1 lesson to go to the concert of a lifetime wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. I would get upset if someone did it all the time, but i would miss a day to go see metallica. Im sure everyone has their own thing or group that would couldn't miss.
davetheflyer
New Member
Regarding uniforms, I think that most of those students who wear them wish that they didn't have to. I know that I heard a lot of complaints about that at FSI.
I kind of felt like a dork myself when I first started wearing a uniform to instruct there. At one point, I stopped by the preschool where my wife worked. One of the kids looked up at me in my uniform and asked, with big eyes, "Do you work at the movie theater?" Any notions that I had of being looked up to as a cool pilot in a cool uniform were instantly gone!
When I taught FAR 61, I normally wore jeans or shorts. It was especially nice to be able to wear shorts in the summer. I wish FSI had allowed them. Even when dressing casual, I did try to look reasonably professional and neat.
And I guess wearing the FSI uniform paid off in a way. I didn't feel out of place when I had to start wearing one at ACA (except for the hat which is worthless and uncomfortable).
I kind of felt like a dork myself when I first started wearing a uniform to instruct there. At one point, I stopped by the preschool where my wife worked. One of the kids looked up at me in my uniform and asked, with big eyes, "Do you work at the movie theater?" Any notions that I had of being looked up to as a cool pilot in a cool uniform were instantly gone!
When I taught FAR 61, I normally wore jeans or shorts. It was especially nice to be able to wear shorts in the summer. I wish FSI had allowed them. Even when dressing casual, I did try to look reasonably professional and neat.
And I guess wearing the FSI uniform paid off in a way. I didn't feel out of place when I had to start wearing one at ACA (except for the hat which is worthless and uncomfortable).
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
I must admit....I'm a dipper...
Just as nasty as smoking, but at least I can do it when I'm not around people, use some scope and you never knew!! And I don't dip in the cockpit unless it's a really long, 3-in-the-morning, nobody is flying night flight.....which is what I've been doing mostly here lately!!
iceman21
Well-Known Member
Here's one for thought. Not intending to be one to rain on the parade here, but try to think the whole thought process all the way through before making judgements about a person's professionalism.
Senario - Joe B is training at a nice expensive 141 school. Everyone around him is dressed professionally. Instructors wear dress shirts and ties and most students are wearing polos and khakis, etc. But Job B comes into school everyday 8-6 PM wearing scrubby clothes (T-shirts, the occasional polo, 1 pair of jeans every 4 days, only owns 2 pair of jeans, wind pants,wearing shoes that are about to fall apart, etc.) Joe wants to be an airline pilot and hopes to get a job where he has done his flight training.
Would you give him a job?
If taken at first impression Joe seems like a scrub, right? Cannot dress, wears dirty clothes, etc, etc.
Peel back the layers to find out Joe busted his rear end. Graduated all the courses up to his CFI at 141 minimums (35 hour PVT, 35 hour IRA, 120 hour CAX, CFI-A, and CFI-I) and did all of his flight training in 5 months, taking only weekends off. Mon-Fri 8-6, sometimes getting shoved out the door so the director of the school could go home.
What about Joe's professionalism now? Would you offer him a job if you had the room on staff?
If he wants a job so bad, why doesn't he dress better to make a better impression?
Truth of the matter is that Joe is 22, married, and has a 2 and half year old son, bills stacked to the ceiling, and his last job left him in some serious debt simply cannot afford new clothes.
Food for thought.
Senario - Joe B is training at a nice expensive 141 school. Everyone around him is dressed professionally. Instructors wear dress shirts and ties and most students are wearing polos and khakis, etc. But Job B comes into school everyday 8-6 PM wearing scrubby clothes (T-shirts, the occasional polo, 1 pair of jeans every 4 days, only owns 2 pair of jeans, wind pants,wearing shoes that are about to fall apart, etc.) Joe wants to be an airline pilot and hopes to get a job where he has done his flight training.
Would you give him a job?
If taken at first impression Joe seems like a scrub, right? Cannot dress, wears dirty clothes, etc, etc.
Peel back the layers to find out Joe busted his rear end. Graduated all the courses up to his CFI at 141 minimums (35 hour PVT, 35 hour IRA, 120 hour CAX, CFI-A, and CFI-I) and did all of his flight training in 5 months, taking only weekends off. Mon-Fri 8-6, sometimes getting shoved out the door so the director of the school could go home.
What about Joe's professionalism now? Would you offer him a job if you had the room on staff?
If he wants a job so bad, why doesn't he dress better to make a better impression?
Truth of the matter is that Joe is 22, married, and has a 2 and half year old son, bills stacked to the ceiling, and his last job left him in some serious debt simply cannot afford new clothes.
Food for thought.
Chief Pilot recieves a call from a customer:
"Well Yes Senator, I know he looked like a scum bag, But did you know, Joe busted his rear end. Graduated all the courses up to his CFI at 141 minimums (35 hour PVT, 35 hour IRA, 120 hour CAX, CFI-A, and CFI-I) and did all of his flight training in 5 months, taking only weekends off. Mon-Fri 8-6, sometimes getting shoved out the door so the director of the school could go home..."
Umm no sir, that charter company is in the next hanger. the phone number is 555-555-1234
"Well Yes Senator, I know he looked like a scum bag, But did you know, Joe busted his rear end. Graduated all the courses up to his CFI at 141 minimums (35 hour PVT, 35 hour IRA, 120 hour CAX, CFI-A, and CFI-I) and did all of his flight training in 5 months, taking only weekends off. Mon-Fri 8-6, sometimes getting shoved out the door so the director of the school could go home..."
Umm no sir, that charter company is in the next hanger. the phone number is 555-555-1234
I'm gonna' have to go with Eagle on this one - I'm sorry that 'Joe' is dirt poor broke and can't afford new clothes but honestly - tough noogies - not my problem!! He may be the best stick you could ever hope to fly with BUT professionalism involves many many things including appearance - also a big part of professionalism is responsibility. If 'Joe' has bills stacked to the ceiling and in debt to the point that he can't buy new clothes how responsible was it for him to spend tens of thousands of dollars on flight training that initially qualifies him for a job as a CFI that pays maybe $17K a year if he's lucky?!?! Sure maybe he likes flying but when it comes down to it the repsonsible thing would have been to get a job that could get him out of debt - not a job that will put him more in debt. How responsible was it for him to not work at all while he was in training?? Geez - at least work at McDonalds for a few weeks and buy some new clothes.
There's some food for thought. Is it right? Is it wrong? Who's to say? Not me but what I can tell you that make no mistake about it this industry IS very much built on appearances. That's just the way it is. I have an entire chapter in my operations manual that dictates how I am to dress, grooming standards I must adhere to, and how I am to act while in uniform.
Jason
Jason
There's some food for thought. Is it right? Is it wrong? Who's to say? Not me but what I can tell you that make no mistake about it this industry IS very much built on appearances. That's just the way it is. I have an entire chapter in my operations manual that dictates how I am to dress, grooming standards I must adhere to, and how I am to act while in uniform.
Jason
Jason
iceman21
Well-Known Member
I guess I will be on the street for a very long time because I do not show any professionalism when I dress. I might be looking for employment for a very long time then, even though that flight instructing job I just happened to be offered now requires me to get some new clothes, but the fact that I wore the same pair of jeans sometimes for a week straight was overlooked at the fact that I took my training very seriously and I didn't waste time.
I don't know seems kinda shady to blow someone off because they just happen to be wearing a t-shirt at the time.
I don't know seems kinda shady to blow someone off because they just happen to be wearing a t-shirt at the time.
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