roundout
VNAV monitor
He's already in his preferred base and seat. But not preferred airline.
Right in the feels
Oh Alaska(n)
- Thread starter BobDDuck
- Start date
Right in the feels
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Good thing I'm too junior to matter, because I completely forgot to submit my bid......though I could have gone from SEA peasant to PDX peasant I believe (though I might have misread that, and it was just new(er) hires that already bid PDX.....I pretty much have no idea what I'm looking at on that document)
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
That document is a hot mess. But if you note, there are newhire vacancies at every base except ANC. So that means any FO could have held any fleet and/or base except ANC. The remaining positions are available to bid for newhires (over 200 openings for this bid alone).
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Nice and yeah it is confusing, along with all the post bid emails summarizing the edits. What is a red circle CA? What is a paper CA?
Pretty cool for NH mobility. On that note, one of my classmates successfully bid ANC after not getting it last time around (that being a week or two after our NH week). Dumb question, but I think it is what you are saying.....all those NH vacancy lines could have theoretically been bid into by any of us if desired? At the moment/prob for the next 4-5 years I'm wanting to stay SEA, but I do see PDX likely being in the long term. Maybe that would inform when I want to start bidding for CA, in the (very) distant future.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Me? I got PDX Capt but I’ve been a SEAtard for a minute
Kinda sorta but have the wandering eyeHe's already in his preferred base and seat. But not preferred airline.
Truer than you know
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I totally get that. Hard not to have a wandering eye these days.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
I have an interview at one of the big 3 but it would be a tough call if I actually got a job offer. I’d prefer us to get a good contact or at least just get bought by one of the big boys.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I totally get that. Everything is a gamble these days.
We will have to discuss this over a beer soon.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Red Circle CAs are Indian Captains
J/K
It was a thing from the SLI arbitrators. A protection for CAs who were CAs before the SLI came out. For a period of 5 yrs Dec 2018-Dec 2023. To be protected, a CA would have to bid all bases as a CA (defensive bid protecting CA position at all cost). If this CA still couldn’t hold CA after the displacement, then red circle rights kick in for next time. The next time there is an opening, this red circle guy would get a CA slot before a FO who was more senior to him.
Moot point, because those who were CAs before the SLI have been able to keep a CA spot somewhere company-wide. If you didn’t bid CA at all bases, you lost (gave up) the red circle protection.
Paper CAs are training guys, most nearly all Airbus who are getting awards to the Boeing. But instead of taking a physical Boeing spot now, they are carried as paper Boeing CAs (and therefore allow one more Boeing opening for someone to get a CA spot). The company needs them to keep training on the Airbus so they don’t lost that training capacity. This is a good thing for everyone, win-win situation.
Yes, you could have gotten any of those now remaining newhire slots.
And remember, just because there are no openings in a base like ANC on a bid, doesn’t mean there will be no awards. Even with 0 openings, if any ANC had bid out, it would create a proffer spot that could be filled in by any FO who had bid ANC FO. Same for an ANC CA that bid out.
Say a bid had 0 openings in ANC.
But then in this bid, 2 ANC CAs bid out to SEA CA and 3 ANC FOs bid out to PDX FO.
The final award would show ANC having 2 proffered CA slot awards and 3 proffered FO awards for ANC. Basically, 5 guys inbound that had bid ANC. Even though there were no openings posted, if a current guy bids out, they must backfill his spot.
Exception is reductions. If a position is reduced, they don’t backfill that. Up to the amount reduced. So say a SFO base posts a reduction of 50 A320 CAs at SFO. But in that bid, 55 SFO Airbus CAs voluntarily bid out. That would actually create 5 proffer slots in SFO Airbus for CAs.
On This actual bid, you saw this scenario happen for Airbus LA. More guys bid out than were being reduced so LA Airbus created 3 proffered CA slots.
Make sense?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
The messy award you are seeing is because we do vacancies first and then process reductions. So 75 SFO Boeing CA awards were open to anyone, and it went way junior. But after all vacancies are done, they have to process reductions. If 46 or more SFO Airbus CAs had bid out, then there would be no reductions. But we didn’t have that. Some guys refused to bid out, so they were displaced (reduced). This forced the newly awarded SFO Boeing CAs to be displaced and forced them back to FO within the same bid award. That’s why the reduction page shows “awarded SFO Boeing CA but reduced to SEA FO.”
roundout
VNAV monitor
Does any airline not do it this way?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
We don't. Displacements first and then vacancies. When you have multiple fleet types it reduces the training waterfall considerably.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Do it!
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Seems hard to believe DOJ would allow any big 3 merger with some of these big LCC’s/majors/whatever people call them. Either that or it’d include some massive gives. I mean imagine AS if they bought by DL or UA. SEA or SFO market share would be bananas. But idk, everything has a price in Washington. They don’t really care about the common folk when it comes down to it so maybe I’m wrong.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
After all the posturing, this?
I said you’d be able to hold CA on this bid if you were trying to take first available CA slot (that assumes you bid all bases). Now you have CA awards junior to you at SFO on the Boeing. Just sayin.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
SEA went junior last bid. I’m not willing to commute to reserve which is only ironic due to the fact I used to own a home in the SF Bay. I would have been able to sit reserve by my pool. Had the company not canceled my February 2018 bus class, after I gave notice at the Weezy.
I think you have some serious issues. I’m not a mental health professional so I have no idea what’s wrong with you. The posturing you’re referring to is all in your head.
I’ll get SEA CA soon enough. And likely regret it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Issue? Ironic coming from you. But I'm really not interested in hashing out old history.
Hope you find happiness in whatever you end up bidding/doing.
Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
Red Circle CAs are Indian Captains
J/K
It was a thing from the SLI arbitrators. A protection for CAs who were CAs before the SLI came out. For a period of 5 yrs Dec 2018-Dec 2023. To be protected, a CA would have to bid all bases as a CA (defensive bid protecting CA position at all cost). If this CA still couldn’t hold CA after the displacement, then red circle rights kick in for next time. The next time there is an opening, this red circle guy would get a CA slot before a FO who was more senior to him.
Moot point, because those who were CAs before the SLI have been able to keep a CA spot somewhere company-wide. If you didn’t bid CA at all bases, you lost (gave up) the red circle protection.
Paper CAs are training guys, most nearly all Airbus who are getting awards to the Boeing. But instead of taking a physical Boeing spot now, they are carried as paper Boeing CAs (and therefore allow one more Boeing opening for someone to get a CA spot). The company needs them to keep training on the Airbus so they don’t lost that training capacity. This is a good thing for everyone, win-win situation.
Yes, you could have gotten any of those now remaining newhire slots.
And remember, just because there are no openings in a base like ANC on a bid, doesn’t mean there will be no awards. Even with 0 openings, if any ANC had bid out, it would create a proffer spot that could be filled in by any FO who had bid ANC FO. Same for an ANC CA that bid out.
Say a bid had 0 openings in ANC.
But then in this bid, 2 ANC CAs bid out to SEA CA and 3 ANC FOs bid out to PDX FO.
The final award would show ANC having 2 proffered CA slot awards and 3 proffered FO awards for ANC. Basically, 5 guys inbound that had bid ANC. Even though there were no openings posted, if a current guy bids out, they must backfill his spot.
Exception is reductions. If a position is reduced, they don’t backfill that. Up to the amount reduced. So say a SFO base posts a reduction of 50 A320 CAs at SFO. But in that bid, 55 SFO Airbus CAs voluntarily bid out. That would actually create 5 proffer slots in SFO Airbus for CAs.
On This actual bid, you saw this scenario happen for Airbus LA. More guys bid out than were being reduced so LA Airbus created 3 proffered CA slots.
Make sense?
Good Lord ... how do you guys and gals deal with this stuff on a daily basis? It is maddening to a layman and incomprehensible as common English
I remember seniority bids as being a WHOLE lot more simple on my old job.Similar threads
