Odd flying club dilemma

Something I agree with, as a mechanic ;)

N and P, that's a different story.
At the very least someone should get a "checkout" covering starting procedures. My checkout in an R model a couple years back (after already being checked out in the M and P models) consisted of going out and starting the airplane with a CFI onboard.
 
Wow... Attitude sounds like a great place to learn. I don't imagine that most of their aircraft are anything resembling affordable to rent, except perhaps the ubiquitous Cessnas.
 
Lot's of people fly out of multiple locations. Usually the "currency policy" only includes the FBO's aircraft, it is more about booking more business than about insurance. And losing an otherwise good and paying customer is almost never good for business.

2 hours of instruction every 3 months is a bit restrictive an excessive in my opinion.
That's one thing I love about the 2 places I rent from, they count any flying done towards your currency. Pretty helpful when you fly/teach in multible airplanes like I do.
 
Yeah. Too bad maintaining them is still stupid expensive. :(

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This. I'm doing a lot better financially than I was when I came to JC six years ago and I still can't justify the costs. That being said, if I can make the math work on a complex plane in leaseback, it may make sense. I'm not sure yet.
 
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, do you think theres a pattern developing considering this has happened three times? Perhaps there is something with your flying that three different places have noticed and you don't acknowledge...
Valid question, so I'll expand for you.

First one, BelAir, flat out lied to me and everyone, constantly. Planes were being flown when they were due for mx, students left their home countries thinking they were going to fly a KingAir when it turned out to be a picture of a plane parked in transient posted on the site. They instead learned in Duchesses. They also were notorious for lying to people about how long and how expensive the flying was going to be. I was 15 at the time, but I saw the writing on the wall, so did my parents, so I went across the airport to Diamond. By choice.

I flew at Diamond for 3 years, they were annoyingly anal, but the mx was great, planes were great, I was happy. When I soloed in 12 hours but looked over at my CFI at 90 hours and we were flying aimlessly and I was getting no instruction, I knew something was up. I asked when I could take my checkride, I was asked if I was ready, and he scheduled it just like that, no prep or anything. I then SELF-STUDIED my ass off, and bombed the oral. The DPE they used also asked me some very bizarre questions that I posted on this site in a long thread. Diamond backed the DPE 100% when I complained, and treated me as if I had embarrassed them horribly and was told by my CFI that we "have to start all over now". I said thanks but no thanks, got my CFI's blessing, then spent the next 4 weeks commuting to Louisville to stay with a JordanD while kiloalpha, for free, filled in the holes in days that my CFI couldn't fill in years, for $55/hr. I was a private pilot in Seymour, Indiana by the end of the month. Fly home, try to go flying, they refuse to rent me a plane. They then want me to do a checkout process like a new pilot off the street because they didn't "care what one examiner said" when one of their CFIs said I wasn't ready. And "getting your pilots licence out in the sticks doesn't mean you can handle the airspace here", they said to a person they trained in this airspace for 3 years. At first I refused, but then when I saw what a pain checkouts were, I called my CFI and asked what I needed to do. He told me he'd call the owner, then called me back the next day and said they were refunding my block time and banning me from the premises because I was "spontaneous", "far too laid back" and "dangerous". Basically, the owner took me taking my check-ride in a strange place I've never been before as a big middle finger to his institution. I sent him an e-mail telling the owner that he trained me, so if I'm dangerous, he created a dangerous pilot. He e-mailed me back politely telling me that my CFI thinks I'm unsafe, and he doesn't care what anyone else says, he has to act in the "best interest of the general public and the aircraft owners" in his decision. Direct quote. So, that place can fall off the face of the earth for all I care, and it sounds like they all but have since then.

And now I'm at West Valley, when I joined I thought they were milking me, but I stayed. Planes were brought back hours late all the time, and I had to wait awkwardly with my guests and the dispatcher, and there was never follow-up to members for doing such. One plane had the landing light out for no less than 6 months and they got pissed I was the only one writing it up. Well, at the time I was doing almost exclusively night flying, and happened to be the only member flying said airplane at night. Over the last 2 years, I've had more accounting issues than I could count. Payments are randomly taken out of your account, not on a set day. There have been times I was billed for a whole month of flying and my membership fee at the end of the month, only to be billed again a week later when I've taken another flight and wasn't expecting to pay right away. There were times I was charged multiple times in a month, or double the amount I owed, and several times my account was frozen because they kept billing a card I no longer owned, despite how many times I gave them my new card's info. When you try to go flying at 8PM, and they're closed, then you find out your account is frozen when you go to rent, you aren't happy. In fact, the first time this happened, I called the next day at to rectify the situation, and the girl on the phone interpreted me to shout "YOU KNOW TONY CAIRO?!", turns out she was on my facebook checking out my pictures and our mutual friends. She then goes on to totally side track me by telling me stories about prom where I met her and she went with one of my best friends, but neither one of us recognized the other. The conversation went on so long, I forgot why I called, and I guess she did too, because 3 days later my account was still frozen. I could go on and on, but this 89 day thing is just the last straw.

My car gets 12mpg, because Cadillac pimping ain't easy. Driving further than SQL would likely not even out financially unless I could find super cheap rates in PAO. From what I've seen so far, the $150-160/hr for 172SPs at the San Carlos Flight Center cost the same or less as cheaper options in HWD, LVK, and RHV if you consider the gas I'd use. I may be moving to San Jose in the next few months and going to school down there, in which case I would surely fly out of RHV.

I will say I was planning on doing the Pitts checkout at West Valley, but I guess they aren't the only place with that option.
 
ChasenSFO You still have a standing invitation to come out here and finish your everything... G500 Saratoga for the instrument and commercial, and a a Luscombe that burns 3gph for your "dangerous and spontaneous" adventures. I'm pretty sure we can work with the owners so you only pay fuel.

EDIT: Forgot I also have access to a 172 if you want to relive that spin training again.
 
Get your money and GTFO. Unfortunately there are a lot of skeezball FBOs out there. I was once told that a night checkout in a Cessna 172 didn't qualify me for Day time. I'd trained and rented from that flight school multiple times, but when I came back a few years later with a degree and 850 hours (400 of that flight instruction in 172s), suddenly I can't fly. I told them to go pound sand and 3 months later, I was flying a Cessna 402.
 
Get your money and GTFO. Unfortunately there are a lot of skeezball FBOs out there. I was once told that a night checkout in a Cessna 172 didn't qualify me for Day time. I'd trained and rented from that flight school multiple times, but when I came back a few years later with a degree and 850 hours (400 of that flight instruction in 172s), suddenly I can't fly. I told them to go pound sand and 3 months later, I was flying a Cessna 402.

As mentioned upthread, I was told this same information at a different FBO and that it was due to an insurance requirement. I have no way of proving this requirement is true or not.
 
Basically, the owner took me taking my check-ride in a strange place I've never been before as a big middle finger to his institution.

Given the way you were treated, it should have been intended that way on your part.




From what I've seen so far, the $150-160/hr for 172SPs at the San Carlos Flight Center

For that rate, they'd better be brand new & G-1000 equipped (around here a G-1000 Skyhawk rents for $145/hr wet just about anyplace)

I will say I was planning on doing the Pitts checkout at West Valley, but I guess they aren't the only place with that option.
They're probably not even the only option at that airport
 
ChasenSFO You still have a standing invitation to come out here and finish your everything... G500 Saratoga for the instrument and commercial, and a a Luscombe that burns 3gph for your "dangerous and spontaneous" adventures. I'm pretty sure we can work with the owners so you only pay fuel.

EDIT: Forgot I also have access to a 172 if you want to relive that spin training again.
Sounds like something I need to do, soon. Minus the spins. I'm guessing ours was a little more...intense...then a normal spin, but I'll pass for now. Haha.

And $140-160 is average on this side of the bay for an SP with a 6-pack. $160-200 is average for a G1000 172. Its a unique situation here, they know what a pain it is to get to the other airports, and they know renters in PAO/SQL tend to be very wealthy, so they all get away with these prices. It does screw the schmuck like me who is trying to get by on $13/hr and pay for school and gas working part time. But such is life.
 
Sounds like something I need to do, soon. Minus the spins. I'm guessing ours was a little more...intense...then a normal spin, but I'll pass for now. Haha.

And $140-160 is average on this side of the bay for an SP with a 6-pack. $160-200 is average for a G1000 172. Its a unique situation here, they know what a pain it is to get to the other airports, and they know renters in PAO/SQL tend to be very wealthy, so they all get away with these prices. It does screw the schmuck like me who is trying to get by on $13/hr and pay for school and gas working part time. But such is life.


The S here is 132, R for 127, and you can have your pick of earlier models from clapped out to nicely equipped for around 110 to 120.
 
That's about what it's costing. Our non profit club is charging 99 an hour for a steam gauge SP because that's what it costs to operate. If you had a leaseback then the club would have to get its cut and the owner would need their cut too. pretty soon you're at 120.
 
Best rate I've found ANYWHERE in this part of the country (DC/MD/VA) is a 152 for $86 an hour, block rate on $1K deposit.

Most everything else is $135-155 for a 172, $190-210 or so for a 182 or Arrow IV, and $230-250 for multi.

Found a Cessna 400 Corvallis for $350 or so.... :D
 
This sounds like a real clown operation. You should really see if you can get your money and get the heck away from there. I really hope it all works out for you, there is nothing worse than having to deal with some major tools.
 
Try running the numbers on providing a rental or club aircraft, you will be surprised how expensive it is and how little profit margin there is for the amount of risk you must take to operate one.
 
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