NWA Ground Crews Walk Off The Job at MSP
- Thread starter Malko
- Start date
mnixon
Well-Known Member
Well at least you went to college. And it is quite apparent that you majored in being pompous and speaking without thinking. Trust me, there are plenty of jobs out there that will pay a non college degree guy with "two working legs who is able to lift 50 lbs" quite a bit more than a college degree bearing pompous idiot. But hey, who I am I to rock the boat?
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
You obviously didn't read too far into what I wrote, or just couldn't understand it. I feel sad for you.
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
Tim
New Member
You mention supply and demand. The supply and demand for these type workers is very limited. I will give you an example of the type worker that has been hired. This new hire came to me one day and said "Do we actually have to work in the rain and cold?" I said well you dont mind working the in the heat and sunshine so that should answer you question. Airlines cant be as picky as they once were when hiring. They need bodies but even then the bodies dont last. As many can vouch for on here years ago if you got on with an airline in any position you were thought to be set for life. I never ever envisioned leaving Delta. I made choices. You have choices of who you fly also. Airline jobs are not "golden" like in the past. Many view them as just a place to get paid and every now and then fly somewhere cool.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
God given...human given...whatever. I am not religous at all actually. Was just a figure of speech showing that noone can force them to work.
mnixon
Well-Known Member
I feel sad for me too! Sometimes I feel as if I don't appreciate all the luck I have received and fortitude to make my own luck when need be.
That still doesn't solve the problem I have that your statements contradict each other.
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Well if this is the case, then I would hope that NWA and other airlines would pay accordingly. I understand your points on poor work ethic completely. Before my present job, I taught college for four years, and high school for a year. I couldn't believe how lazy some of these kids were - seriously, I was floored. I've had many discussions with the other partners in my firm of how crappy the quality of the general labor pool is. I hate to say it, but maybe we need another Great Depression just to show people that a decent paying job isn't something they're entitled to.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Murdoughnut's gonna get chewed up here no matter what...
Most, if not all, business travelers understand and accept MX/WX delays. It's part and parcel to The Zen Of Biz Travel, which states that stuff will happen, and stuff will happen to you. You either deal with it pleasantly (I.E. - don't chew out CSAs) or you will find another job before you die needlessly of a stress-induced thrombo...
That said, there is injustice in the world. We all know it. It sucks mightly, on a Cosmic-Hoover scale, that ground crews are paid as low as they are for their skillset. I admire those guys, and after a long trip on the road, I gotta tell you that greener grass syndrome sets in and I actually want to do their job sometimes.
But there's one major factor in play here, and there's no way around it, crappy or not: labor is often the largest cost in any business. In any business, you increase profitability by a) cutting costs b) increasing margin on your existing revenue c) increasing revenue in general d) a combination of all of the above.
It seems to me, as an airline customer, that they are leaning toward option a) in most airlines. We've (well, me and Kellwolf have) already argued the merits of SWA in other threads (who treat their employees extremely well) and it baffles me why other airlines don't emulate SWA's model. Maybe they can't, maybe it's inertial, maybe it's just too much of a cultural behemoth.
It sucks for everyone, customers and airlines alike. But don't confuse what we know and feel is right vs. the business decisions the airline makes. They may be at cross purposes, but that is the reality that labor faces. Both sides feel they're right. Ultimately, it will be the consumers who decide who is right, with their dollars. The REAL battle, as I see it, is to make the inconvenienced customers understand that they're being inconvenienced because management has backed the crews into a corner.
Yet another reason why I fly SWA as much as possible.
Most, if not all, business travelers understand and accept MX/WX delays. It's part and parcel to The Zen Of Biz Travel, which states that stuff will happen, and stuff will happen to you. You either deal with it pleasantly (I.E. - don't chew out CSAs) or you will find another job before you die needlessly of a stress-induced thrombo...
That said, there is injustice in the world. We all know it. It sucks mightly, on a Cosmic-Hoover scale, that ground crews are paid as low as they are for their skillset. I admire those guys, and after a long trip on the road, I gotta tell you that greener grass syndrome sets in and I actually want to do their job sometimes.
But there's one major factor in play here, and there's no way around it, crappy or not: labor is often the largest cost in any business. In any business, you increase profitability by a) cutting costs b) increasing margin on your existing revenue c) increasing revenue in general d) a combination of all of the above.
It seems to me, as an airline customer, that they are leaning toward option a) in most airlines. We've (well, me and Kellwolf have) already argued the merits of SWA in other threads (who treat their employees extremely well) and it baffles me why other airlines don't emulate SWA's model. Maybe they can't, maybe it's inertial, maybe it's just too much of a cultural behemoth.
It sucks for everyone, customers and airlines alike. But don't confuse what we know and feel is right vs. the business decisions the airline makes. They may be at cross purposes, but that is the reality that labor faces. Both sides feel they're right. Ultimately, it will be the consumers who decide who is right, with their dollars. The REAL battle, as I see it, is to make the inconvenienced customers understand that they're being inconvenienced because management has backed the crews into a corner.
Yet another reason why I fly SWA as much as possible.
mnixon
Well-Known Member
Wow, I tried to be civil, but that statement proves that you are a blithering idiot.
And the strange thing is, is that what you just said is a very conservative statement, but you said that you taught college, usually referred to as being a
left wing nut job professor! You intrigue me!
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
They didn't contradict. Pay isn't determined by how hard you work. My earlier point was that ground crews work their ass off, but that it seemed like a job that just about anyone would be qualified to do, and thus you wouldn't expect pay to be that high.
mnixon
Well-Known Member
At least in upper echelons of the corporate world, your pay is not determined by how hard you work, but how well you can backdate stock options and rub the bottom line.
Aeroman
New Member
LOL, what a load of crap. Such a person may be hard to find in this country, but take a trip down to India or China and I'm sure you'll be able to find someone with "advanced statistics" experience for about 10k per year. What people dont realize is that no matter how "advanced" a job may seem in this country, there are thousands of educated people in foreign companies willing to do the same work for a fraction of the price. It may take some extra training and language skills, but eventually globalization will create this in the long run. Why not support wages in this country as much as possible instead of getting on a high horse and crapping on "low skill" workers because "plenty of people are willing to do the same menial job for less". It may be you who are next.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
What's wrong with saying that people should realize that they're entitled to a job? I was saying this in the context that some people don't appreciate the opportunity to work, such as some of the lazy folks that the earlier poster was referencing - I don't find anything idiotic about this.
Liberal nut job professors are far fewer than you (or the Fox News pundits) think - but for the record, I'm a moderate who leans liberal. I don't see my opinion as liberal or conservative on this matter - supply and demand is a law of capitalistic society, and I'm simply citing the law. I wish everyone could get paid based on how hard they worked - but this isn't how it works. Hell, I'm sure the regional FOs on here bust their asses, but as long as people are willing to pay for their job (see Gulfstream) they can't expect to be paid a decent wage. It sucks.
bdhill1979
Gone West
I dont think that there is a maybe, it is going to happen to all of us
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
True, but we also need folks who can work in a sales capacity and can be personable with clients. That's why I have a job. Can't pay to send someone from India to Orlando for our weekly client meetings.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
I call BULLSH*T on this.
You've just spent an enitire thread complaining about "uneducated" workers in job that "anyone with two legs and the ability to lift 50lbs" can do and now you have the gall to say A) you actually take time to notice anyone other than yourself and B) admire their work ethic?
BULSH*T.
Keep diggin', it's fun watching you sink deeper and deeper and deeper ...
bdhill1979
Gone West
This has been an entertaining thread
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
ONCE again, SWA is the simgle most UNIONIZED carrier in the U.S today and has one of the highest PAYSCALES. Why are they profitable? Because on the whole they treat their employees like people and not rabid, three legged, blind mules like most other carriers do. THAT is the difference (oh yeah and they cherry pick their routes).
Costs for airlines go in this order FUEL, MX, Labor. Is labor that surprising? It's a SERVICE oriented business thus LABOR is essential. LABOR is essential in any business. You can hire the worlds greatest CEO and with no one in the factory or behind the cash registers the business WILL FAIL.