Not a good precedent- Midwest Airlines Wins Arbitration

You wanna make money and be able to support your family right out of CFIing? Don't fly for an airline then. You know the pay will suck and that the hours will be terrible, don't do it. Go to a 135 gig. Hell, FLX pays at least $28,000 their frist year, that's way more than some regionals, and you won't be gone all the time. Build your time at places that pay a little bit better, then go on to an airline after you've managed to put away some coin.

You made your bed, now lie in it. I don't have a family, but I know I don't want to live on $23,000 per year in an expensive city. I actually like to enjoy myself. Nor do I want to live off of my girlfriends income. Why put yourself through it? Why beat your head against the wall, when you could have CFI'd just a bit longer, probably making a little more and being home way more often (which is better to see your kids) then gone to fly freight. Well, the answer is always "but i didn't wanna." Boo hoo.

I don't think you can justafiably be bitter about pay and mad at the youth when you too jumped in head first without looking. "But I wanna job, and a FLYING JOB!!!!" When you can work at home depot for more money, I think you should. Better to fly 10hrs per month and work at home depot than 100hrs per month, and starve. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb kid, whose 135 job pays more than a third year colgan saab captain starting. Its nothing personal, but the negativity has got to stop, you either love what you're doing or you don't, if you don't then quit. Period. Bitching tirelessly about how poor poor pitiful me is treated so poorly in a career field that pays you to travel, doesn't make you do manual labor and has (for a lot of airlines) fairly legitimate union protection is ridiculous. Yeah, you can get furloughed, yeah your whole life can go to pot in five minutes of bad economics, but if its that bad, then why are you still here? You can get student loans to go back to college (with the exception of riddle rats with $100k of debt for school), you can change the type of flying job (in a better market), you can work in a different field. Don't sell yourself or your family short. The young guys can afford to, the others cannot and should be a little more cautious.
 
Ohh, BTW, I'm going to college for a math degree so that when I get furloughed (and its not a question of if, its when) I'll be able to support my family when I have one, not an aviation management (mostly useless) or professional piloting degree. At one of the worst times in my life, a guy that I still consider to be an ass hole told me not to be a one trick pony in regards to aviation, I took that very seriously, and will have a backup. We're pilots remember! Always have a way out.
 
It might be worth mentioning that a certain percentage of those who work at an airline are not single and are also not on one income. Just a thought.

Also, I find it somewhat hilarious to have a 135 pilot telling someone else in another segment of the profession to "do it this way," when they themselves lack any experience in the certain segment of the profession they're being critical of.

I've said it before and it seems it must be said again.

We all make our own decisions, the end.
 
ppragman said:
Stuff
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I work for a 121 airline. I get 17 days off, never change timezones, and make over $60k flying a turboprop. Oh, you were trying to make me feel bad, sorry I popped your bubble.

Your math degree won't help you a bit in 10 years when you have no work experience with it and haven't used it in years. I'm not saying you shouldn't get it, but don't think it will magically get you a job years down the road.
 
Ralgha said:
I work for a 121 airline. I get 17 days off, never change timezones, and make over $60k flying a turboprop. Oh, you were trying to make me feel bad, sorry I popped your bubble.

Your math degree won't help you a bit in 10 years when you have no work experience with it and haven't used it in years. I'm not saying you shouldn't get it, but don't think it will magically get you a job years down the road.
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Worse case I can substitute teach at a middle school, best case, I'll get some other job. The plan is to do gradschool at the same time I'm working for some freight place. BTW, I'm stoked that you're successful, and I'm glad you're happy, I'm just getting a little fed up with the morose and often times whiny bitching that I hear on here. Not that I haven't been guilty of it, but really, we need to start focusing on what matters. Hey, we have it great, and with the exception of how companies often treat us, we have one of the most rewarding jobs in the world. We personally hold more lives in our hands than doctors ever dream of, travel more miles than members of the circus, and if we stay in it long enough, will probably see more countries than the average diplomat. Its cool, its fulfilling, we get people home on time for christmas, hell, yesterday, I carried a guy going through chemo back to his house so he could sleep in his own bed rather than in the hospital. That's damn fulfilling. But instead, we get dragged into the idea that this industry is a cess pool, and the mantra gets repeated over and over again until finally this is more of a job than a career. Keep your chin up. Fight for progress, yes, but don't dwell on the negative.

BTW surreal, I had the option for 121, I was offered a job at PenAir (the mesaba of the north sans jets) and Era (the colgan of the north sans q400) and I turned both of those jobs down, why? It didn't pay enough, yeah I wanted 121 time, yeah I wanted to be an airline pilot, but ya know, I wouldn't be able to pay my student loans working at that pay (maybe at PenAir, but it wouldn't have been fun, definitely not at Era).

I'm by no means a one to say "do it my way." Hell, I'm the opposite, I say, "do what you want." That being said, once you commit to something, realize that your actions have consequences, and sometimes you'll get the shaft. I learned that pretty hard this summer, and had to live with it while I clawed desperately to get my feet back under me. Luckily I stumbled into a decent job. #### happens, its not always as great as the brochure says, YMMV, cliche, cliche. Deal with it or find a way to get out. I'm happy you're trying something new. Hopefully law school will be all you ever wanted it to be, and you can successfully help change the world, remember however, that you'll be asked to do just as many questionable things, deal with just as many questionable people, and will work just as hard if not harder. The only thing that pays is the work and the paycheck, you remain the same.
 
Sometimes it's not all about money. If you've got a kid and a wife, it might be worth it to make $8000 a year less by going to a regional over 135 freight or CFIing for another year or two if you get health insurance. My wife's insurance wasn't cutting it, and our son's Mississippi Medcaid was about to run out. Sure, I could CFIed for another year or so, but it woulda been a year with crappy (and expensive) health insurance.

Remember, look at the WHOLE picture, not just those charts on APC.
 
Then I don't want to hear any complaining when you can't get that raise you were looking for. I can't believe I'm saying this, but that's just a generalization. We're talking about it not being all about the money for a 19-70 seat a/c. Isn't that what everybody's arguing about these days? The big boys gave up those seats years ago and now that it's utilized Walmart Style, they're breathing down everybody's neck about the payscales. First off, you, the big ones, gave it up and no offense but you're now expecting a mass-push for better pay...for your pay? Good luck. Ask a sociologist sometime about how easy it is to get a large group of people to agree on something. Not that I would've played it different had I been there back then, but seriously. We gotta look at reality here. We're in this mess and now we gotta get out of it. I thought you guys were the big hitters in that department.
 
Trip7 said:
Oh boy the same ole is it worth it argument. Generally it looks like the complainers all have similar backgrounds. Married, kids, lots of bills and responsibility at home and employed at the regionals. The single guys appear to be having a great time.

Fellas, if you come into this game with family and responsibilities, you should have known what you were getting into and planned accordingly. Especially financially. Don't hate on the space cadets that are getting an early jump on their career. Maybe they knew what they wanted to do from a very early age and planned accordingly on things like having a family later on in their career.

Its also funny that most pilots I'm friends with and Captains I've flown with all I experienced great satisfaction in this career like myself. Looks like the majority of internet complaining are being done by a small minority. Even on ASA's company website, its the same 5-10 pilots out of 1700 whining about little stuff.
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And you! It's not a game. It's not your college fraternity. You can play it off that way and tell people their argument is weak just because they live a different lifestyle all you want. Someday you will be outnumbered and wonder why the fun is gone. Your priorities will change. They don't need to change now. Have tons of fun. You deserve it. You're young. But act like you have a brain. Married folks can add and subtract just like you. It's not always as simple as making it through the first year
 
Trip7 said:
Ok you guys are taking this the wrong way. All I'm saying is the first couple years at a regional is tougher on new-hires with families than single newhires. This requires more planning. It shouldn't be a surprise. Its like that in most industries. Thats why many doctors wait til they are out of residency to start a family.
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Some times that first couple of years turns into 8 or 9 years. 36K is ok at 22 but how does 40K after 8 years in sound.
 
Gonzo said:
Some times that first couple of years turns into 8 or 9 years. 36K is ok at 22 but how does 40K after 8 years in sound.
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Now come on Gonzo, you're just bitter about the decade to upgrade program! You should take a hint from Marcus and, well...nevermind, don't listen to a word I'm saying.
 
I actually challenge to say that the first few years at a regional are not, in fact, tougher on those of us who have families.

But, since I don't have any empirical data to support it it mustn't be true, but rather an opinion. Much like that of "...first few years at a regional are tougher for those with a family." So I suppose then that statement poses that the first few years at a regional are easier for the single studs.

Once again, not like I have any empirical data to support the following claim, but I'm quite aware of some single associates of mine who are having some significant issues paying their bills on time because they only have one income stream and it's not keeping up with their loan debt, crashpad costs, grocery costs, energy costs, etc. I sure as hell haven't had any problems paying my bills or stressing it but perhaps that's because I'm not some single income stud running around living the G' lifestyle on 35k a year. :bandit:
 
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