Not a good precedent- Midwest Airlines Wins Arbitration
- Thread starter stillageek
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
For me, I'm just in too deep at this point. I don't have the work experience to quit and start another job on what I'm making as a CA. If I were still a first year FO, I could easily replace that income. I could go back to operating theme park rides for $8/hr. Or I could be a ramper for about the same wage. Any time of management position some where other than that would make me wanna kill someone.
Then again, I have been missing pushing buttons at Space Mountain lately.....
E_Dawg
Moderator
The last time I was called on reserve to fly an airplane was Dec 27. Last week I went to Malaysia on my flight benefits. I'm currently packing for Sydney. I'm on captains pay after only 2yrs. Believe me, I have my complaints. BUT - and maybe it's because I spent the majority of last week on the beach - but this job is not all bad.
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
Maybe I should have known this...you with SKW in Fresno?
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Oh boy the same ole is it worth it argument. Generally it looks like the complainers all have similar backgrounds. Married, kids, lots of bills and responsibility at home and employed at the regionals. The single guys appear to be having a great time.
Fellas, if you come into this game with family and responsibilities, you should have known what you were getting into and planned accordingly. Especially financially. Don't hate on the space cadets that are getting an early jump on their career. Maybe they knew what they wanted to do from a very early age and planned accordingly on things like having a family later on in their career.
Its also funny that most pilots I'm friends with and Captains I've flown with all I experienced great satisfaction in this career like myself. Looks like the majority of internet complaining are being done by a small minority. Even on ASA's company website, its the same 5-10 pilots out of 1700 whining about little stuff.
Fellas, if you come into this game with family and responsibilities, you should have known what you were getting into and planned accordingly. Especially financially. Don't hate on the space cadets that are getting an early jump on their career. Maybe they knew what they wanted to do from a very early age and planned accordingly on things like having a family later on in their career.
Its also funny that most pilots I'm friends with and Captains I've flown with all I experienced great satisfaction in this career like myself. Looks like the majority of internet complaining are being done by a small minority. Even on ASA's company website, its the same 5-10 pilots out of 1700 whining about little stuff.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
You plan on staying single the rest of your life Marcus? Or young, sans responsibilities that the greater majority of this country have - house, land, investment properties, etc? Apartment living for you til you die? Never taking on additional "responsibilities" because the single and young lifestyle is just too great to give up?
If so, congratulations.
One day hopefully you'll learn not to chastise someone because of their lifestyle or their responsibilities, just as they do not chastise you for being a single, young, rich at 36k a year young man.
Nevertheless you're really missing the point and this won't be the last time either I'm sure.
I'll end on this note: It's all about perception.
If so, congratulations.
One day hopefully you'll learn not to chastise someone because of their lifestyle or their responsibilities, just as they do not chastise you for being a single, young, rich at 36k a year young man.
Nevertheless you're really missing the point and this won't be the last time either I'm sure.
I'll end on this note: It's all about perception.
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
What are you looking at getting in to?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Number one opportunity is to practice law, somewhere. Preferably labor law. Shoring up cash for the transition and of course the payment of school, but until the decision is made and I'm in a position to go after it, I'll be sticking it out flying planes around. Time will tell.
It always seems to be the same old story. It's the guys with the family and kids who fight to raise the bar in this profession, while the young single, fresh out of college jet jocks are happy they just get to fly a jet around, and party it up, all while being bent over. A pretty immature way of thinking if you ask me, with no regard for any type of successful future in this industry. (From one extreme to the other)
Aside from that in the Majors, you have guys that simply don't protect their interests as much as they should, and arent nearly as aggressive about preventing the further deterioration of their pay and lifestyles as they should be. Along with that you have a management favoring government that handcuffs these same people to accepting an ever deteriorating reality, and incompetent management. Everything is working against this profession.
Gone are the days when pilots thought of their jobs as important, and responsible. Where pilots realised and knew what they are worth, and had a high self-worth. Most guys now think they are worth what they are currently getting paid, and look at the job as nothing more but a hobby. How is anything supposed to ever improve when pilots don't put a high value on what they do, but instead look at themselves as just "glorified bus drivers". You become what you percieve yourself as, and then everyone treats you as such.
Sounds horrible and morbid, but it would take a series of accidents with high fatality rates for anyone to actually start respecting what they do again.
Aside from that in the Majors, you have guys that simply don't protect their interests as much as they should, and arent nearly as aggressive about preventing the further deterioration of their pay and lifestyles as they should be. Along with that you have a management favoring government that handcuffs these same people to accepting an ever deteriorating reality, and incompetent management. Everything is working against this profession.
Gone are the days when pilots thought of their jobs as important, and responsible. Where pilots realised and knew what they are worth, and had a high self-worth. Most guys now think they are worth what they are currently getting paid, and look at the job as nothing more but a hobby. How is anything supposed to ever improve when pilots don't put a high value on what they do, but instead look at themselves as just "glorified bus drivers". You become what you percieve yourself as, and then everyone treats you as such.
Sounds horrible and morbid, but it would take a series of accidents with high fatality rates for anyone to actually start respecting what they do again.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Keep up that line of thinking, Marcus. Management loves it when the single guys say "Aw, this ain't so bad." Then when you decide you want to get married, have kids and a house you say "Wait....um, I can't afford this?" Like surreal said, are you gonna stay single forever or live in an apartment and party it up the whole time? Some of us are fighting to raise the profession ABOVE what it is now. As it is, the kid on the college program at Disney for a semester makes about what a first year FO does. And you think that's OKAY?
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Ok you guys are taking this the wrong way. All I'm saying is the first couple years at a regional is tougher on new-hires with families than single newhires. This requires more planning. It shouldn't be a surprise. Its like that in most industries. Thats why many doctors wait til they are out of residency to start a family.
When pilots with families start calling young single people like myself "Space Cadets" it makes you sound like you have a grudge or something. Hey you took the same exact job I did, and neither of us had any role in contract negotiations...
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I'll agree that people should look before they leap, but they should also think about the big picture. Most of your posts, it's pretty obvious you're glossing over the big picture to look at the little sections you like.
So you retaliate by slamming the guys with families and kids. Once again, big picture. The guys with families and kids working to make things better also make it better for the younger guys, too. The young kids that are pretty much saying "Cool, a JET!" make our jobs that much harder.
And EVERY pilot has a role in contract negotiations. It might not be at the table, but you vote and talk to your negotiators to let them know what's important to you. If Pinnacle hadn't been in negotiations when I got hired and this contract wasn't ammendable soon, I would have gone elsewhere. If I had known it was gonna take this long, I might still have gone elsewhere.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
The main problem isn't a "Demographic" problem like has been suggested, but an "Ego" problem.
Everyone is of short mindset of what the "Regionals" (nee` - commuters) hae been for most of their existance. Not all that long ago, the biggest plane the majority of them flew was the Ginormous 34 seat SF340. Sure there were exceptions that flew the big ATRs, but that was it.
Air Wisconsin was a real airline, flying big jets. After they got bought up, and towed into UAL their game has changed too.
I really don't understand the angst at the young people.
Whether you went to college, the military or another route after highschool, you had your ideas about the world. As you age and mature life EXPERIENCE changes your view on things.
For every "fact" that is spouted that young single people are the root of the problem, I can give you an example that disproves that.
I can't tell you how many people I interviewed that had retired, or started some business and sold it, because when they started flying there was no job.
They made their $$$, had a family, a house and all the reponsibilites of a person in that position many of us find ourselves. They took the job becasue they ALWAYS wanted to fly a JET at an AIRLINE. SJS? Sure, but not in that format that is always spoken as the STANDARD by a few folks on here.
They were able to absorb, tolerate and not want to rock the boat at contract time. They had their other income stream, did day trips to and from home and never had to commute and flew a jetliner. When a base closed they bitched because they actually had to spend nights away from home during work periods.
Meanwhile, most of us were young single college educated folks who didn't have parents sending us cash had to find a way to live off the legacy contracts from the prop days.
The other part of the issue is every generation that treated the commuters as a stepping stone. "Get your time and get out!!!" was the philosiphy that laid the foundation for almost all the regional contracts out there, as that was the only game in the late 70's and early 80's.
Well, the game has changed with the commuters flying national route structures and sales that make them majors.
The pilot population still hasn't taken the drastic measures necessary to make the drastic change. Until the "stepping stone" mentality is eradicated, nothing will change. Until each pilot stops treating their company as a means to an end, it will stay status quo.
Until people at the same experience level stop looking at each other and saying "You don't understand cause you don't have a mortgage and kids", and more experienced pilots look down the line and intimate that the pilots at commuters "aren't real pilots flying real airplanes", nothing will change.
Everyone is of short mindset of what the "Regionals" (nee` - commuters) hae been for most of their existance. Not all that long ago, the biggest plane the majority of them flew was the Ginormous 34 seat SF340. Sure there were exceptions that flew the big ATRs, but that was it.
Air Wisconsin was a real airline, flying big jets. After they got bought up, and towed into UAL their game has changed too.
I really don't understand the angst at the young people.
Whether you went to college, the military or another route after highschool, you had your ideas about the world. As you age and mature life EXPERIENCE changes your view on things.
For every "fact" that is spouted that young single people are the root of the problem, I can give you an example that disproves that.
I can't tell you how many people I interviewed that had retired, or started some business and sold it, because when they started flying there was no job.
They made their $$$, had a family, a house and all the reponsibilites of a person in that position many of us find ourselves. They took the job becasue they ALWAYS wanted to fly a JET at an AIRLINE. SJS? Sure, but not in that format that is always spoken as the STANDARD by a few folks on here.
They were able to absorb, tolerate and not want to rock the boat at contract time. They had their other income stream, did day trips to and from home and never had to commute and flew a jetliner. When a base closed they bitched because they actually had to spend nights away from home during work periods.
Meanwhile, most of us were young single college educated folks who didn't have parents sending us cash had to find a way to live off the legacy contracts from the prop days.
The other part of the issue is every generation that treated the commuters as a stepping stone. "Get your time and get out!!!" was the philosiphy that laid the foundation for almost all the regional contracts out there, as that was the only game in the late 70's and early 80's.
Well, the game has changed with the commuters flying national route structures and sales that make them majors.
The pilot population still hasn't taken the drastic measures necessary to make the drastic change. Until the "stepping stone" mentality is eradicated, nothing will change. Until each pilot stops treating their company as a means to an end, it will stay status quo.
Until people at the same experience level stop looking at each other and saying "You don't understand cause you don't have a mortgage and kids", and more experienced pilots look down the line and intimate that the pilots at commuters "aren't real pilots flying real airplanes", nothing will change.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
You've got it all figured out. Man, I wish I had consulted you a few years ago. Could have saved me all this heartburn.
unbelievable........... do you use kneepads in scott's office, or does he give you the koolaid for free
