No more Brasilias at SkyWest...

PhilosopherPilot said:
I've got no problem suggesting it however. I think it would improve QOL for the group. We all know most of the senior guys won't have any of it though. They "got theirs" and screw those below them.
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Then propose it. If it is a great system then you shouldn't have any problems convincing the senior guys why it is a great idea. Just remember, I am junior and think it is an horrific idea.

That's what unions are all about right? Greatest good for the greatest number? Right? Right?
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I am the LAST person you need to explain that to.
 
Seggy said:
Look, if he wants to propose that because he thinks he is smarter than us, please, go right ahead.
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Look, if you don't like discussion, then by all means block my posts. You're entitled to your opinion, as am I.

I'm not opposed to ANY ideas that are put forward. Your attitude is actually terrible for negotiations, because it discourages spitballing and any ideas that are outside the box. The only way to improve is to push the limits of what is currently acceptable.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Look, if you don't like discussion, then by all means block my posts. You're entitled to your opinion, as am I. I'm not opposed to ANY ideas that are put forward. Your attitude is actually terrible for negotiations, because it discourages spitballing and any ideas that are outside the box. The only way to improve is to push the limits of what is currently acceptable.
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You do understand I have actually been in negotiations and we had to get ideas outside of the box to get the deals done?
 
Seggy said:
Then propose it. If it is a great system then you shouldn't have any problems convincing the senior guys why it is a great idea. Just remember, I am junior and think it is an horrific idea.



I am the LAST person you need to explain that to.
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Obviously not. You want to preserve lower overall QOL to the benefit of the senior and the detriment of the junior.

And judging by your earlier posts, you don't support novel ideas. If it doesn't fit your narrow black/white world, it shouldn't even been proposed.
 
Seggy said:
You do understand I have actually been in negotiations and we had to get ideas outside of the box to get the deals done?
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All I have to go on are your posts on here. If you are so open to outside the box, I would expect that to be evident here. It isn't.

I've actually talked with Jim one on one. I'm fairly certain he has little in common with you two clowns. He's reasonable, intelligent, and forward thinking, which is exactly what we need.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Obviously not. You want to preserve lower overall QOL to the benefit of the senior and the detriment of the junior.
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I have explained at least twice now while it is NOT detrimental to junior pilots.

And judging by your earlier posts, you don't support novel ideas. If it doesn't fit your narrow black/white world, it shouldn't even been proposed.
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When representing pilots in union work they aren't interested in 'novel' ideas. They want results to raise the bar.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Your attitude is actually terrible for negotiations, because it discourages spitballing and any ideas that are outside the box.
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Boy, you're just a jack of all trade, aren't you? First you're telling business owners how to run their businesses (even though you work for someone else), and now you're telling seasoned, successful negotiators how to negotiate (even though you've never been one). Do you tell your doctor how to diagnose your symptoms, too?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
So have we.



I'm fairly certain he would find most of your ideas to be batpoop crazy.
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Good for you. Jim's a great choice for us.


First of all, you guys just do not get the concept of arguing a position for the sake of arguing it. I think rotating reserve is a good idea, but I completely understand your points of view and why it will likely not be in the next contract. I do think there are ways to take Seggy's ideas into consideration, like allowing people to bid for reserve out of the rotation if they like. So if reserve goes senior enough, it doesn't actually rotate. But I'm not trying to propose a system here, and I'm not trying to get that changed in our new contract. Frankly, I don't give a flying flick about reserve. It isn't that bad here as it is, and it will only get better in our CBA. I just remember talking to guys at ASA who were on reserve for 4-5 years, and thinking that there had to be another way. Anyone could go crazy under that effed up system of abuse for that long.

As far as other ideas, I haven't proposed any. Our discussion about seniority is fairly accepted by most pilots. Most people understand the seniority is a horrible system, but it's the best system we can have. Most people understand that merit would be better if there were a way to accurately and objectively measure merit.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Boy, you're just a jack of all trade, aren't you? First you're telling business owners how to run their businesses (even though you work for someone else), and now you're telling seasoned, successful negotiators how to negotiate (even though you've never been one). Do you tell your doctor how to diagnose your symptoms, too?
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Ok then, tell me how your inflexible and traditional way of thinking can cause things to progress, given that you reject novel ideas out of hand?

And I didn't tell you how to run your business. I just said that it would be kind of silly to promote longevity over merit. But hey knock yourself out, killer!
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Ok then, tell me how your inflexible and traditional way of thinking can cause things to progress, given that you reject novel ideas out of hand?
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Neither of us reject novel ideas. We reject bad ideas. Novel ideas are how we've gotten things done for years. The contract at AirTran that bears my signature is full of novel ideas. But none of them involved throwing a group of pilots under the bus as you propose doing to everyone who isn't at the bottom of the list.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Neither of us reject novel ideas. We reject bad ideas. Novel ideas are how we've gotten things done for years. The contract at AirTran that bears my signature is full of novel ideas. But none of them involved throwing a group of pilots under the bus as you propose doing to everyone who isn't at the bottom of the list.
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I haven't proposed anything. A true proposal would be comprehensive and provide protections to the whole group.

But brainstorming by definition will come up with LOTS of bad ideas, and a few good ones. If you "tar and feather" anyone who tries to propose new ideas, you'll put a big ole' chill on novel concepts. You shouldn't shame people for spitballing.
 
Goodnight folks. I'm done with this thread now. You can all breathe a collective sigh of relief. :)

Btw, I have a special place in my heart for the Brasilia, just because it was so instrumental in the growth of my old company ASA. I never got to fly it, but everyone that I know who did enjoyed it thoroughly.

It's sad to see it go away.
 
Lee D said:
It's funny how today's piece of crap airplanes were once yesterday's rock stars; speaking from the standpoint of many passengers. I remember flying her in to VIS a few times way back when I was a new hire. Sometimes the plane was empty so we would go flaps 45 and see how tight our short field landing technique was. Empty Bro's can stop on a dime at sea level. :D

Regarding the Brasilia, I'll steal Bumblebee's words from a thread a few years ago, "She'll always be my first love." Something like that....

Yes Seggy it did have an autopilot and an APU, but you still had to put on your big boy pants to handle it and fly it. ;)

I don't regret one second of the seven years I spent operating it. The Brasilia has brought me safely through severe icing, severe turbulence, 30 knot plus gusty crosswinds every summer, (thank you old St George airport and Cody,WY) and more Rocky Mountain snowstorms and thunderstorms than I care to remember. It also let me experience the beauty of the entire Pacific coast along with the Western United States.

Finally the pilot community was always relatively small and so you formed a closer bond with the men and women who flew it. Many of us have moved on, but still retain close ties with those we flew with on the Brasilia. When I'm an old geezer. . . .well, an older geezer than I am now, that is what I will remember best. Lots of great people and memories.
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FAT-VIS-FAT with no one on board!
 
Lee D said:
Love the blue juice on the ceiling story!!

I remember the early morning after I finished my EMB 120 type ride in Carlsbad, you were the Captain that flew me back to LAX! That was Spring of 06.

I had the EEC kick off on me a few times, I had forgotten about that! The first time at a high power setting makes you think you chucked an engine. It sends your heart rate through the roof! That being said I never lost an engine on the Brasilia. Worst situation was when we fried an entire electrical BUS in a snowstorm about 80 miles North of SLC one cold winter morning. That was a busy, busy flight.
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Did you ever hear the true story of Laber flaming out an engine on short final going into CLD? lol, he took a picture of the fuel gauge showing fuel to prove he didn't do it on purpose. Saved his job.
 
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