New Hire Bonus

Xcaliber

Xcaliber

El Chupacabra
So just an off-the-top-of-my-head thought...What are the chances that a union could successfully add either a "no hiring bonus for new hire" or "no hiring bonus for new hires unless EVERYONE gets one" clause to their contracts? If regionals are already having to put these into place to attract qualified applicants, would doing this require them to raise pay instead?
 
They shouldn't have to add one. The RLA specifies that a union is the sole bargaining agent when it comes to wages. There are multiple arbitrator decisions that say that a bonus is considered part of wages. I think it was PDT that forced the company to stop doing that a few years ago. I know that our MEC here has made it clear to the company that they would prevent a new hire bonus. Also, I've said to multiple people that I have no idea why Eagle and Republic's unions haven't been fighting these bonuses from day one. I understand that REP is deep in a very nasty section 6 fight right now and may not have much leverage (other than legal options) to stop the company, but I am surprised that Eagle hasn't done more.
 
BobDDuck said:
Also, I've said to multiple people that I have no idea why Eagle and Republic's unions haven't been fighting these bonuses from day one.
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Maybe because they're too busy running up $2k tabs with union dues at Barmy Wines/Liquor store?
 
BobDDuck said:
They shouldn't have to add one. The RLA specifies that a union is the sole bargaining agent when it comes to wages. There are multiple arbitrator decisions that say that a bonus is considered part of wages. I think it was PDT that forced the company to stop doing that a few years ago. I know that our MEC here has made it clear to the company that they would prevent a new hire bonus. Also, I've said to multiple people that I have no idea why Eagle and Republic's unions haven't been fighting these bonuses from day one. I understand that REP is deep in a very nasty section 6 fight right now and may not have much leverage (other than legal options) to stop the company, but I am surprised that Eagle hasn't done more.
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It's actually in the RLA? Maybe I need to read it over more carefully. There might be a reason RAH is able to "cya" out of it. If I can't find out why, I'll bring it to the NCs attention.
 
BobDDuck said:
I know that our MEC here has made it clear to the company that they would prevent a new hire bonus. Also, I've said to multiple people that I have no idea why Eagle and Republic's unions haven't been fighting these bonuses from day one.
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I have no idea either, but it ain't that much money (for now). If it ever does get to be a large sum... I have a lot of vacation time banked - just sayin', don't rat me out when I take the bait and promptly quit :)
 
h55A8DA86
 
BobDDuck said:
152.7 and 156.

9E went through this a while back as well, but I don't know the outcome.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...-bonuses-prompt-lawsuit-for-pinnacle/?print=1
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Yes I was hired in that timeframe, and did get the bonus money. The union raised a huge stink about it. At the time, I'd say rightfully so because you could use the lack of pilot applicants as leverage. I don't know the outcome, because by mid-2008 9E stopped hiring due to the recession.

But I will say, legally, we weren't employees until passing the sim checkride. That was our official hire date. Until that point, we were just contractors.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes I was hired in that timeframe, and did get the bonus money. The union raised a huge stink about it. At the time, I'd say rightfully so because you could use the lack of pilot applicants as leverage. I don't know the outcome, because by mid-2008 9E stopped hiring due to the recession.

But I will say, legally, we weren't employees until passing the sim checkride. That was our official hire date. Until that point, we were just contractors.
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Really?
 
jtrain609 said:
Really?
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To which part?

Yes that we were like 'contractors.' We had no benefits in initial training from day of class. I got 400/week in check, and for tax purposes, I received a Form 1099 Misc. Income. We didn't get our ID badge until passing the checkride, then we were in CASS and that sim date was the official DOH on our badge. All benefits start date was pegged with a start date of the DOH. Theoretically, the company could say that because pilots weren't officially employees until passing sim date, then they could do with "contractor" pay whatever they wanted.

The sim date DOH was also a major thorn/contention in SLI negotiations. The 9E committee never made it clear to the arbitrator that our class date and sim date differed, and XJ and 9L took advantage of it. After the SLI hearings closed, the arbitrator still requested clarification on this DOH issue. In the end, it didn't matter because it was a category and class method.

One gift that keeps on giving is that 9E anniversary for pay continues to be (to this day) your sim date, not class date. Whereas XJ and 9L still get their raises on class date. So for 9E pilots, we lost out 1.5 - 3 months payraise sooner. So if your class date was July 15 and sim date Sept 2, then your payraise would come Sept 2, whereas your July 15 mesaba guys and colgan guys get their payraise on the july 15 class date of hire.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
To which part?

Yes that we were like 'contractors.' We had no benefits in initial training from day of class. I got 400/week in check, and for tax purposes, I received a Form 1099 Misc. Income. We didn't get our ID badge until passing the checkride, then we were in CASS and that sim date was the official DOH on our badge. All benefits start date was pegged with a start date of the DOH. Theoretically, the company could say that because pilots weren't officially employees until passing sim date, then they could do with "contractor" pay whatever they wanted.

The sim date DOH was also a major thorn/contention in SLI negotiations. The 9E committee never made it clear to the arbitrator that our class date and sim date differed, and XJ and 9L took advantage of it. After the SLI hearings closed, the arbitrator still requested clarification on this DOH issue. In the end, it didn't matter because it was a category and class method.

One gift that keeps on giving is that 9E anniversary for pay continues to be (to this day) your sim date, not class date. Whereas XJ and 9L still get their raises on class date. So for 9E pilots, we lost out 1.5 - 3 months payraise sooner. So if your class date was July 15 and sim date Sept 2, then your payraise would come Sept 2, whereas your July 15 mesaba guys and colgan guys get their payraise on the july 15 class date of hire.
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Check RLA section 151, Fifth.
 
Fifth. The term "employee" as used herein includes every person in the service of a carrier (subject to its continuing authority to supervise and direct the manner of rendition of his service) who performs any work defined as that of an employee or subordinate official in the orders of the Surface Transportation Board now in effect, and as the same may be amended or interpreted by orders hereafter entered by the Board pursuant to the authority which is conferred upon it to enter orders amending or interpreting such existing orders: Provided, however, That no occupational classification made by order of the Surface Transportation Board shall be construed to define the crafts according to which railway employees may be organized by their voluntary action, nor shall the jurisdiction or powers of such employee organizations be regarded as in any way limited or defined by the provisions of this chapter or by the orders of the Board.


So?
 
When Pinnacle used to hire FOs, they weren't classified as "pilots" yet. So, that's how they creatively got around that little loophole. Hence the reason we were considered "contractors." No taxes taken out of that meager check, either, IIRC. You were "hired" as a pilot on the day you passed your checkride. Your vacation and benefits all triggered off that day, too. XJ and 9L all hired their guys as pilots, so their hire date and class dates were the same. 9E class dates (ie seniority dates) were about 2-3 months earlier than our "hire dates" as pilots. So, our seniority went off our class date. Everything else went off our "hire date." Oh, and it was all spelled out in our CBA that way, too. Fast forward to the merger, and we're punished for being hired at 9E. They refused to backdate our hire dates to our seniority dates to match XJ and 9L. So, the only people that have two dates to keep track of? Legacy 9E guys.
 
BobDDuck said:
Wow. That's pretty crappy.
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Even crappier when the other 2 groups (XJ and 9L) try and refute the change on our seniority list from sim date of hire to class date of hire (mind you, everyone else is already class date of hire) for integration purposes. Even worse that our own 9E team didn't properly address it to the arbi-traitor.
 
The longevity date change issue could have been solved if the 9E union had been creative. It was a $1.6 million sticking point - we received a $10 million bonus (only 9E not 9L/XJ)... If we had used the bonus money to cover it we would have had longevity = hire = class date.

- Source: Wychor

I wish we had, but there is no going back...
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Even crappier when the other 2 groups (XJ and 9L) try and refute the change on our seniority list from sim date of hire to class date of hire (mind you, everyone else is already class date of hire) for integration purposes. Even worse that our own 9E team didn't properly address it to the arbi-traitor.
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Or short sighted of people when choosing a company to work for.
 
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