New GI Bill and Flight Training

lstgnfghtr said:
Hey, Capt...I fly with another Acquisitions dude...A Capt. we got from LA AFB, space acquisitions. He's an MC-130P Pilot now, callsign "Sputnik", due to the space weenie background. ;-) He's a good stick, so we forgave his past (sort of).

I've been hitting up Sierra already. I used to be Army Guard out of Fresno, and drove past Castle on my way to the Fresno base from my home in the Bay Area. Sierra used to run the Korean Air program up here at my home field of Livermore (KLVK), but they folded up shop.

Sierra hasn't gotten back to me. Still waiting to hear from someone. The new Post 9/11 GI Bill is becoming a problem for many schools that previously took it, so not too many of them have decent answers to my specific questions. The BAH isn't much of a player in the Central Valley...better to max out the flying in minimum time than to drag it out to get the BAH in an area that pays crappy.

I wish there was one in my area, as our BAH here is well into the 2K range. I fly out of Moffett Field, and I am a full timer. If ANYBODY hears of a school here in the Bay that has promise to these ends, PLEASE remember to drop me a line and let me know. I'll compensate you with gratuitous amounts of beer and/or scotch. ;-)
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Hey man, it just occurred to me that a while back (when I was in ROTC) I considered transferring to San Jose State because they had an Aviation program. This would be a public institution and would get you that "blank check" for training. It's right in your backyard too...

http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/catalog/departments/AVIA.html
 
Is there anyone currently training under the post 9/11 GI Bill at Aviator Academy in FPR by any chance? I'm planning on going there sometime this year or early next. Just wondering how the programs's working out. Any info would be highly appreciated. Thanks :)
 
I've talked to some here that are current students at Aviator Academy, check the aviator threads and PM them.
 
first time checking out jetcareers, this is a info packed site on the GI Bill. Wish I had located this a year ago! With that, I would like to pass on what I've discovered in the last 8 months. 3 State 6 school, self funded TDY road show. Fact finding.... hope this helps, might be some frustration mixed in.

I have info on Portland Community College, Central Oregon Community College, Big Bend Community College, Central Washington University, and Lane Community College, aka Lane Aviation Academy. All have part 141 flight programs with degrees attached.

I'm hear to say I've meet 4 folks all who worked through the program since the Fall of 2009 with ease. Private, Instrument, Commerical, Single, Multi, CFI/I....two year degree in Aviation included. Amazing! I was motived even more when the the 2.0 hit last Jan, which is a precuser for the 3.0 which will undoublty gut this program of all flight fees. I'm sure you will still be able to apply fees for Law or Med programs, but Flight...hell no, cuz we are all having WAY to much fun up there flying around. Shooting an actual instrument approach in mins trying to remember the holding pattern entry and wishing you did'tn eat that .99 fresco bean burrito for lunch cuz your wathing your BAH budget.

Nonetheless, I attend a flight school BEFORE the military, never used my 100% Ch33 up until this month.

Since residency is now an issue, I can only speak to Oregon and Washington. Cali was out for me, but I can say any flying at Sunrise Aviation at Orange Co Airport in Santa Ana, is WELL WORTH IT. OCC, last I knew had one aircraft, but if they can get Sunrise onboard, it's a great FBO to fly out of. I took an aerobatic course with them, they have top notch, everything.
 
Washington:
CWU: 4-year program, awesome direct hire with Horizon and the Flight Officer program. Still waiting to hear back if they can work with the VA and get the private contract trianing provider approved.

Big Bend CC: Moses Lake WA, Population 17,000. State owned aircraft. VA relaxes on this issue. 40 years in business. Great folks, Director is VA friendly and approachable. Aircraft are top notch. Glass cockpits, Twins, SEAPLANE!, Citabria ( spins ), 20 some aircraft to choice from, maybe 125 student in the program. New facility, student housing, walking distance to the campus. Small town 200 miles from Seattle, 100 miles from Spokane. I hope you like cross wind landings.
 
Oregon:
Central Oregon CC: bend oregon, coolest place to live. If you are prone to ditching class to go raft, fish or snowboard, this might not be the school for you. Awesome director, cutting edge programs, two contracted providers to choose from. DA-20s, 172 RG, C22, Seminole. Well thought out program, great classes to choice from, VERY knowledgable VA rep at the school. Helo program is top notch as well. Not a tough place to live either.

Lane Aviation Academy Lane Comm College: I attended this program back in 99, before I joined up. Not finishing up was haunting me. When this new GI Bill dropped, I couldn't pass it up. When 2.0 came along, I moved my ass to get a plan together. I love this school, why? It's old school. 40 years in business, the Chief CFIs have 30 years here each! Old planes with old instruments, and they will fly you IN THE CLOUDS actual IFR on your first IFR lesson. In western Oregon we have no shortage of clouds. They teach navigation like your Mom and Dad learned it, heck like your Grandparents did! You learn the basics before you touch a GPS. iPad in the cockpit, CFI will simulate a "iOS5 failure" and work a partial panel power failure during a cross country. VA Rep loves Vets, BUT, they require all flight fees be paid up front. Yes, this is an issue. Not sure why they do this, the school is suspect of the VA, maybe? All I know is you get your money back in about 3-4 weeks. It goes from the VA to the school, then to a distribution service that ETFs or send a check. This is far from perfect. School leadership wants it that way. A number of vets who have been in the program for 2 years have worked out wrinkles for the next generation and paved a smooth path. The academics are reasonable, basic one math, one english, PE is waived for military, common sense aviation academics. 80% of your course work is at a small campus at the airport. The genED can be accomplished online too. Staff is Vet friendly and they treat all students the same. Oregon has plenty of re-training programs for dislocated workers, so they are familiar with such programs well before the VA.

Portland Community College: get a placement test. The school requires that you score into Math 60/65 prior to enrollment in the flight program. It's is the largest program in the region. Airplane and rotor program as pilot factories for international air carriers. This place know's how to train pilots. They could black out the sky with all the aircraft. Two locations on each side of the Portland area, awesome VA reps to work with - 3 in fact. Portland is a huge city in the NW, with lots of job options and living situations. The kicker for this school is the degree. PCC offers a two year degree in aviation WITH!! !! !! Instructor ratings. That is PVT, COMM, INSTR, ME, CFI/i, MEI. That is huge, $10-15k huge.
 
Flight Degrees: the devil is in the details. The VA will ONLY pay for classes that are on the degree. With that, you can only take classes that you need. That can be the difference between a Commercial Pilot program and a Professional Pilot program. It is very difficult to get a job as a commercial pilot with 200 hrs without CFI ratings. Some colleges figured this out and added degrees to include CFI ratings. They took out a aviation business class, and added CFI/I ground school and the flight labs to cover the fees. If you happen to be at a school that does not allow for the CFI ratings, consider this. It may not be part of the degree, but if they offer the classes as electives ( hint hint ), then I would suggest you hold off on taking electives in foreign policy making or creative writing, and go with CFI/I, MEI. Trade in $1000 in college classes for $10k in course work that will get you job right away. Don't blame the flight schools, it's the VA. Through there State LNOs and school reps, they apply a hefty set of rules. Gone are the early days of Sept 2009 when VA flight students could draft there own education plan. Now, the screws are tightening and the schools are dealing with audits. Claims of Vet favoritism, limits on how many Vets can be in a program, quotes and so forth. Doing your homework is the best start. Get a degree plan in writing with the Aviation Directors signature AND the VA reps signature. Tell them what classes you are going to take, and which of those the VA will pay for. Waiting until it's too late will cost you time off your 36 months and money.
 
RedTape: we've all been in the military, we know red tape. I've had a decade of of Mil Spec Red Tape, and I thought that was bad until I discovered the US Education System. No one in the DOD can match the likes of a college administration system. Be ready for it! No the answer to the questions before you answer it. Use the VA "ask a question" system, print out the answer take in 3-copies to the VA reps and note your appointment time and make reference to that appointment with your advisor. Watch out for enrollment departments. They transfer your previous military and college credit, and they WILL mess it up. Surprisingly, this should be your first stop in the search before you even go sit in the shiny airplanes. Once you know what they will accept, the VA rep will tell you what courses you can take, for how long, and what will be covered. Having that in writing will help when you take that information to the flight department for review and draft a plan to take back to the VA rep for additional review. VA Reps are your friend, they want to help you out and keep there job, sometimes that causes a conflict. All I can offer is advise on knowing more then they do about the Ch33 as it related to flight, because in most cases, they do not. Asking the question of what exactly on this list of classes will my Ch33 cover...and please put that in writing. We all know that no good plan survives first contact.

***** Take this with a grain of salt folks ***** Hope I was able to bring back what I learned from this process when I was at the early stages of planning ******

I am happy to report I am back up in the air and training is going well, money is flowing ( sort of ) and I hope you see you all up there real soon.
 
Favor to ask. Anyone have experience with the school VA reps saying you can't take a class over again, even if it has been 10+ years? Not just flight, but college classes? VA says you can only take the class once, but if you took it before the GI Bill, and it was a long time ago, any suggestions on how to get them to allow that?

Thanks!
 
PacNW said:
Favor to ask. Anyone have experience with the school VA reps saying you can't take a class over again, even if it has been 10+ years? Not just flight, but college classes? VA says you can only take the class once, but if you took it before the GI Bill, and it was a long time ago, any suggestions on how to get them to allow that?
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The VA should definitely cover your class.

VA pays for any approved class the first time through. Receiving an Incomplete, Withdraw, or F because of poor attendance will send the VA looking for their money back. Then, taking that same class will be covered again. Retaking an actually failed class is allowed and covered. I know one college that allows 3 attempts. I don't know how many attempts the VA would cover, but I do know they cover at least 2.
 
mat said:
The VA should definitely cover your class.

VA pays for any approved class the first time through. Receiving an Incomplete, Withdraw, or F because of poor attendance will send the VA looking for their money back. Then, taking that same class will be covered again. Retaking an actually failed class is allowed and covered. I know one college that allows 3 attempts. I don't know how many attempts the VA would cover, but I do know they cover at least 2.
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Thanks Mat! I'm going to start building my case.
 
PacNW said:
Big Bend CC: Moses Lake WA, Population 17,000. State owned aircraft. VA relaxes on this issue. 40 years in business. Great folks, Director is VA friendly and approachable. Aircraft are top notch. Glass cockpits, Twins, SEAPLANE!, Citabria ( spins ), 20 some aircraft to choice from, maybe 125 student in the program. New facility, student housing, walking distance to the campus. Small town 200 miles from Seattle, 100 miles from Spokane. I hope you like cross wind landings.
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I went to Big Bend and it was the best choice I've made in training. Top notch instructors and attention to detail from everyone. Free ground before and after flights and anytime you really want it. If you are good you can move into one of their junior instructor positions after graduation. Just added rotorwing as well with a partnership with Inland Helicopters. They have transfer degrees to other colleges and they have Central Washington U. on site. Very cheap place to live and there are a lot of outdoor activities available. Maintenance is great! I don't think there is 125 students in the program unless they really got big in the last couple of years.
 
FYI all, Mountain State University is officially live and good to go with ATP for their online program (sans the California locations). I got the go ahead to register for the March 5th class, but with starting a new job next week, I'm waiting until the May class.
 
ozziecat35 said:
FYI all, Mountain State University is officially live and good to go with ATP for their online program (sans the California locations). I got the go ahead to register for the March 5th class, but with starting a new job next week, I'm waiting until the May class.
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MSU/ATP program is a "go" with the VA - perfect reason for a beer on Thursday...

I'm planning to start in May as well.

.
 
ozziecat35 said:
FYI all, Mountain State University is officially live and good to go with ATP for their online program (sans the California locations). I got the go ahead to register for the March 5th class, but with starting a new job next week, I'm waiting until the May class.
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Interesting. Being an online program, I'm guessing it's 1/2 BAH?
 
Nope, full BAH since some of the classes are in-residence (flying at the specific ATP location is considered as normal classes/labs).
 
Hold your horses everybody! I emailed my contact at MSU to start the registration process for the flight courses, and got this,

We recently had discussions with ATP and have decided that flight training will not begin until the fall semester. You may continue to complete academic courses until that time. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

To which I responded..."Uh oh, that doesn't sound promising...is the VA program in jeopardy?" And I got this shortly thereafter,



Not that I am aware of. I believe there are some technicalities that they are trying to work out when it comes to flight training.


So, take that with a grain of salt I guess. Honestly I'm worried, but hey, I have nothing to lose by waiting...I'll just work on the Gen. Ed's and keeping pulling the 1/2 BAH...it's still free money / school. I'll bet ATP is blocking this with regards to how they're going to get paid. As always, I'm happy to share my info as I get it.
 
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