New GI Bill and Flight Training

To Whom It May Concern:
I would love to know does MSU accept VA benefits? and if they do how does it work if I was to major in the flight program. Would I have to move or can I take classes online and at ATP? I live in New York and I'm a veteran ready to learn to fly and earn my degree. How soon can I enroll into classes? I'm also entitle to 100% under the post 9/11. Thank you for your time.

And the response was:
Yes, MSU is approved for students to receive VA Education Benefits while attending. Our ATP aviation program allows you to take classes online through MSU and do your flight training at any ATP flight training facility. The next online session will begin in January 2012. I’ve included Jon Wilder, our Online Enrollment Coordinator for our ATP aviation program so he can help you get started with the admissions process.

Jennifer Lamb
Director of Veterans Services
Mountain State University
410 Neville Street
Beckley, WV 25801

Veterans Services Office - phone 304.929.1321, emailveterans@mountainstate.edu, or fax 304.461.3263

Beginning August 1, 2011, VA will no longer be paying for break periods between semesters for any VA Education Benefit Program.

Please visit www.gibill.va.gov then click on the Post 9/11 GI Bill option to view a summary of the changes that take effect in 2011.
 
JMA22 said:
To Whom It May Concern:
I would love to know does MSU accept VA benefits? and if they do how does it work if I was to major in the flight program. Would I have to move or can I take classes online and at ATP? I live in New York and I'm a veteran ready to learn to fly and earn my degree. How soon can I enroll into classes? I'm also entitle to 100% under the post 9/11. Thank you for your time.

And the response was:
Yes, MSU is approved for students to receive VA Education Benefits while attending. Our ATP aviation program allows you to take classes online through MSU and do your flight training at any ATP flight training facility. The next online session will begin in January 2012. I’ve included Jon Wilder, our Online Enrollment Coordinator for our ATP aviation program so he can help you get started with the admissions process.

Jennifer Lamb
Director of Veterans Services
Mountain State University
410 Neville Street
Beckley, WV 25801

Veterans Services Office - phone 304.929.1321, emailveterans@mountainstate.edu, or fax 304.461.3263

Beginning August 1, 2011, VA will no longer be paying for break periods between semesters for any VA Education Benefit Program.

Please visit www.gibill.va.gov then click on the Post 9/11 GI Bill option to view a summary of the changes that take effect in 2011.
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Keep us posted. The ATP website says otherwise...

I think she's just "covering her bases".
 
Flush! said:
Keep us posted. The ATP website says otherwise...

I think she's just "covering her bases".
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Not necessarily. The impression I got from the whole MSU/ATP deal is that ATP has absolutely nothing to do with the VA. It seems like the VA will cut a single check to to MSU for both sides of the training program, and then MSU will disperse payments to ATP accordingly...again, just what I've inferred. YMMV
 
Flush! said:
Hey guys,

Is it just me? ...or did ATP just "word-smith" their VA page? I seem to remember it being significantly different than this:

http://www.atpflightschool.com/va/
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If it's the "F you service member; we ain't NEVER taking money from the VA" then no, it's been like that for at least a couple of weeks. I'd love to know why there is a disconnect between ATP and MSU? This is something that the VA should be looking into...very fishy.
 
HeyEng said:
If it's the "F you service member; we ain't NEVER taking money from the VA" then no, it's been like that for at least a couple of weeks. I'd love to know why there is a disconnect between ATP and MSU? This is something that the VA should be looking into...very fishy.
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I brought it to the VA's attention. Their response was something to the effect of "They don't have to take it if they don't want to". My problem with that is that if ATP currently takes ANY OTHER type of financial aid (pell grants, student loans, scholarships, etc.), then it is clearly a form of discrimination against service veterans.

FYI, there is no disconnect between MSU and ATP. You have to fly with ATP to get the degree from MSU. I've asked Jenifer if I can fly with other schools; the answer was "no".

ozziecat35 said:
Not necessarily. The impression I got from the whole MSU/ATP deal is that ATP has absolutely nothing to do with the VA. It seems like the VA will cut a single check to to MSU for both sides of the training program, and then MSU will disperse payments to ATP accordingly...again, just what I've inferred. YMMV
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If you call ATP, you will get a different answer completely. If you go to an ATP school (which I did) you will get blank stares and instructors regurgitating the "we don't take no stinkin' GI Bill" mantra. The VA sending the money directly to MSU is exactly the problem that the ATP supervisor threw back at me when I called them. He asked me how I am going to be able to fly a plane in Long Beach, when the money to do so is sitting in West Virginia...? MSU can't answer that one either. If you have other options in your area, look for them. Check out some of your community colleges; there might be something.
 
Just received from my MSU contact...

Looks like the CA guys may be out of luck.



"From the meetings I had with ATP, everything should be fine for the spring term, pending receipt of the VA approval. One new thing I learned was that MSU students will not be able to take their flight training at the California ATP facilities right now due to some conflicts with FAA and California law; ATP is referring students to their Phoenix and Las Vegas facilities instead.

Jon Wilder is the Online Enrollment Coordinator for the ATP program and can help you with your other questions. He can be contacted at 304.929.1724 or jwilder@mountainstate.edu."
 
ozziecat35 said:
Just received from my MSU contact...

Looks like the CA guys may be out of luck.
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Well, that's fantastic. This is going to work for everyone who doesn't live in the most populated state in the nation. No help to me at all...

No biggie. I'm starting with a local community college in January. Personally, I wasn't looking forward to giving ATP money anyway...
 
Flush! said:
Well, that's fantastic. This is going to work for everyone who doesn't live in the most populated state in the nation. No help to me at all...

No biggie. I'm starting with a local community college in January. Personally, I wasn't looking forward to giving ATP money anyway...
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Glad you were able to find a place at least!
 
ozziecat35 said:
Glad you were able to find a place at least!
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Yeah, it looks like it's gonna work!

The only thing that worries me slightly is the fact that I'm going to have to pay the money up front and then get reimbursed at the end of each semester. ...and I have to carry at least 9 units. It won't really matter because I will be getting the housing allowance but still, I'm gonna be pretty steamed if the VA comes back and says that the fuel/airplane/instructor isn't covered. We'll see how it all plays out... :dunno:
 
Indeed, all the best!
And to be fair, I don't think the issue with the CA ATP schools is with ATP, from the MSU Rep's statement, it's an FAA / State of California issue.
 
Flush! said:
Yeah, it looks like it's gonna work!

The only thing that worries me slightly is the fact that I'm going to have to pay the money up front and then get reimbursed at the end of each semester. ...and I have to carry at least 9 units. It won't really matter because I will be getting the housing allowance but still, I'm gonna be pretty steamed if the VA comes back and says that the fuel/airplane/instructor isn't covered. We'll see how it all plays out... :dunno:
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I don't remember the actual deal, but if you are using a IHL, I don't think they are allowed to "charge you up front". As soon as the registration is processed, the VA is making payment. Now if you are using the 10K a year deal then yes, you may have to pay up front. The school may very well be in violation of the law.
 
ozziecat35 said:
...to be fair, I don't think the issue with the CA ATP schools is with ATP, from the MSU Rep's statement, it's an FAA / State of California issue.
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With the ridiculous laws we have in this state, I'm not surprised... ;)

Thanks man. Good luck to you, as well!!!
 
HeyEng said:
I don't remember the actual deal, but if you are using a IHL, I don't think they are allowed to "charge you up front". As soon as the registration is processed, the VA is making payment. Now if you are using the 10K a year deal then yes, you may have to pay up front. The school may very well be in violation of the law.
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Really? Hmmm...

Well, if you come across that regulation again, let me know. I will be sure to ask them about it. Thanks for the "heads up"!!! I'm so glad I found this forum...
 
Hokay folks....just talked to Jon Wilder at MSU, and here's the current info that he has...all of this is subject to change...

For Flush! Your beef is not with ATP at all according to Jon. There is a CA law that prevents flight schools from taking any pre-payments over 3 or 4 thousand dollars that was enacted after all the flight schools took students money and ran.

As I predicted, ATP has no hand in the funds, MSU gets one payment, and distributes accordingly. As it stands, actual flying won't take place until mid 2nd to early 3rd semester...(he was very iffy on that...that's definitely something that might change, especially if you have previous flight experience / ratings.)

So, as it stands, you can begin the admissions process to MSU online, forward any existing college credits via official transcript the MSU, and you will also need to get an official copy of your service training records (For Army it's ARTS, which you can do online), and a photocopy of a valid ID that is completely legible emailed to Jon. (I'd also get him a copy of your DD214 as well)

They are currently tweaking some of the flight curriculum's to get the total cost under $25K a semester. He mentioned that if you are less then 100% eligible benefits wise, you may have some cost on your own. (Even 100% guys may need to fork some cash for books and what not, but you should be able to cover that with BAH payments).

That's what I have folks. Good luck!
 
Hey everybody...I've been reading the threads here since last night trying to figure out the ATP question that apparently you all have already been working on.

I noticed mention of a place in Oakland, but I couldn't find where you were referring to.

I'm an MC-130P Flight Engineer out of the Silicon Valley area, PPL holder, and 100% post 9/11 eligible, so I am doing my homework now. I don't give a hoot about the degree, but I'm trying to figure out how I can make the most out of the program, even if it means enrolling in a degree program. I fly full time for the Guard, so I'm looking for whatever will be the fastest way to ratchet up through CFI-I and MEI (I have helo dual too, and am not far off of a rotary add-on), as I'd likely have to take a leave of absence from work to get the program done...and those don't last forever.

I know I could glean a bunch more info by reading all the threads, and probably answer my own questions, but if any of you have done the research already, and know of any Northern CA avenues I should consider, please pass along the info so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I work an ungodly amount (ORI inspection this year), TDY all the time, and the hardest part for me is finding the time to sit and research and figure all of this out.

ATP Sacramento would be the 1st preference (I live in the East Bay), but I see there are issues with that, and they won't get back to me. They sent me a link to a career coach on their forum site, but aside from that, I've heard nothing. Seems once I asked about VA, I was at the bottom of the inbox. Wondering if there is anything else nearby. You'd think a huge metro area like this would have at least one.

So again...any NorCal centric leads would be GREATLY appreciated. Relocating for the program is just not an option. I do it local-ish, or I can't do it at all. (wish I was doing this at 22 years old, and not 36...back when life was simple and free).

Thx

(email is MC130FE at Gmail dot Com)
 
lstgnfghtr said:
Hey everybody...I've been reading the threads here since last night trying to figure out the ATP question that apparently you all have already been working on.

I noticed mention of a place in Oakland, but I couldn't find where you were referring to.

I'm an MC-130P Flight Engineer out of the Silicon Valley area, PPL holder, and 100% post 9/11 eligible, so I am doing my homework now. I don't give a hoot about the degree, but I'm trying to figure out how I can make the most out of the program, even if it means enrolling in a degree program. I fly full time for the Guard, so I'm looking for whatever will be the fastest way to ratchet up through CFI-I and MEI (I have helo dual too, and am not far off of a rotary add-on), as I'd likely have to take a leave of absence from work to get the program done...and those don't last forever.

I know I could glean a bunch more info by reading all the threads, and probably answer my own questions, but if any of you have done the research already, and know of any Northern CA avenues I should consider, please pass along the info so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I work an ungodly amount (ORI inspection this year), TDY all the time, and the hardest part for me is finding the time to sit and research and figure all of this out.

ATP Sacramento would be the 1st preference (I live in the East Bay), but I see there are issues with that, and they won't get back to me. They sent me a link to a career coach on their forum site, but aside from that, I've heard nothing. Seems once I asked about VA, I was at the bottom of the inbox. Wondering if there is anything else nearby. You'd think a huge metro area like this would have at least one.

So again...any NorCal centric leads would be GREATLY appreciated. Relocating for the program is just not an option. I do it local-ish, or I can't do it at all. (wish I was doing this at 22 years old, and not 36...back when life was simple and free).

Thx

(email is MC130FE at Gmail dot Com)
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Hey Doug, welcome to JC!! This is a great community for aspiring pilots, take advantage of all the smart people here! As far as we know right now, any ATP program you're looking at that is in California is NOT VA approved per an existing CA law preventing pre-payment of funds for flight training to any school in CA over 3 or 4 thousand dollars. Your best bet in CA is a local Community College in your area. I'd check the VA's website of approved IHL's with flight programs.
 
<--- Travis C-5 FE here.

I searched high and low for a place in the greater Bay Area for a IHL with VA Ch.33 flight school. Unless something has changed in the past 10 months, there is no college that fits the bill in the area. As I expanded my search, I found COCC in Bend, OR. I'm up here now flying and it's a really good deal. I live in Sacramento and still do the Reserve gig, so I know where you're coming from. Check out the program, for me it's been worth coming up here to do it.

lstgnfghtr said:
Hey everybody...I've been reading the threads here since last night trying to figure out the ATP question that apparently you all have already been working on.

I noticed mention of a place in Oakland, but I couldn't find where you were referring to.

I'm an MC-130P Flight Engineer out of the Silicon Valley area, PPL holder, and 100% post 9/11 eligible, so I am doing my homework now. I don't give a hoot about the degree, but I'm trying to figure out how I can make the most out of the program, even if it means enrolling in a degree program. I fly full time for the Guard, so I'm looking for whatever will be the fastest way to ratchet up through CFI-I and MEI (I have helo dual too, and am not far off of a rotary add-on), as I'd likely have to take a leave of absence from work to get the program done...and those don't last forever.

I know I could glean a bunch more info by reading all the threads, and probably answer my own questions, but if any of you have done the research already, and know of any Northern CA avenues I should consider, please pass along the info so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I work an ungodly amount (ORI inspection this year), TDY all the time, and the hardest part for me is finding the time to sit and research and figure all of this out.

ATP Sacramento would be the 1st preference (I live in the East Bay), but I see there are issues with that, and they won't get back to me. They sent me a link to a career coach on their forum site, but aside from that, I've heard nothing. Seems once I asked about VA, I was at the bottom of the inbox. Wondering if there is anything else nearby. You'd think a huge metro area like this would have at least one.

So again...any NorCal centric leads would be GREATLY appreciated. Relocating for the program is just not an option. I do it local-ish, or I can't do it at all. (wish I was doing this at 22 years old, and not 36...back when life was simple and free).

Thx

(email is MC130FE at Gmail dot Com)
Click to expand...
 
Find a school like Yavapai College in Prescott Az that offers both helicopter and fixed wing so you can work on both certificates and become dual rated.
 
lstgnfghtr said:
Hey everybody...I've been reading the threads here since last night trying to figure out the ATP question that apparently you all have already been working on.

I noticed mention of a place in Oakland, but I couldn't find where you were referring to.

I'm an MC-130P Flight Engineer out of the Silicon Valley area, PPL holder, and 100% post 9/11 eligible, so I am doing my homework now. I don't give a hoot about the degree, but I'm trying to figure out how I can make the most out of the program, even if it means enrolling in a degree program. I fly full time for the Guard, so I'm looking for whatever will be the fastest way to ratchet up through CFI-I and MEI (I have helo dual too, and am not far off of a rotary add-on), as I'd likely have to take a leave of absence from work to get the program done...and those don't last forever.

I know I could glean a bunch more info by reading all the threads, and probably answer my own questions, but if any of you have done the research already, and know of any Northern CA avenues I should consider, please pass along the info so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I work an ungodly amount (ORI inspection this year), TDY all the time, and the hardest part for me is finding the time to sit and research and figure all of this out.

ATP Sacramento would be the 1st preference (I live in the East Bay), but I see there are issues with that, and they won't get back to me. They sent me a link to a career coach on their forum site, but aside from that, I've heard nothing. Seems once I asked about VA, I was at the bottom of the inbox. Wondering if there is anything else nearby. You'd think a huge metro area like this would have at least one.

So again...any NorCal centric leads would be GREATLY appreciated. Relocating for the program is just not an option. I do it local-ish, or I can't do it at all. (wish I was doing this at 22 years old, and not 36...back when life was simple and free).

Thx

(email is MC130FE at Gmail dot Com)
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Hey Man! Former Captain USAF, AFSC 63A (Acquisitions).

If I were in Nor Cal, I would definitely be hitting up Sierra Academy in Atwater (formerly Castle AFB). http://www.sierraacademy.com

They say that their flying counts towards a degree. That's exactly what you need to get the $17,500 + BAH. Don't even bother calling ATP. They are not willing to help you. Their website clearly states that they are not going to take the GI Bill.
 
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