New "controller" at KJFK Tower...

[drunkenbeagle]

LiveATC founder Dave Pascoe, a pilot and radio enthusiast, said he was sickened at the thought that the controller could be disciplined.

"I absolutely believe that this is being blown out of proportion," he said. "This is just a completely controlled situation. A child was being told exactly what to say."

He added: "I think it's just fantastic that this guy cared enough to take his kid to work. How many parents take their kids to work these days?"

Funny, I know Dave - nice guy. Amateur radio hobbyist from Boston, spoken with him on many occasions years ago. And he helped me out a lot when I was playing around with VATSIM years ago (yes, I know it isn't the same as /real/ ATC, but it was still fun for a few months.). Unfortunately, if not for liveatc, Fox News in Boston would probably never have known about this.

 

[Stewie]

OK so McDonalds makes their coffee REALLY hot. That's what I got from that.

That's the exact same conclusion I made from that link.

No offense but if you get 3rd degree burns from a cup of joe, maybe coffee just isn't the right drink for you.

 

[Jacob Wall]

I called, and left a message with the operator.

 

[derg]

Holy delayed media reaction, Batman.

So the kid shot off a few 'cleared for takeoff' and 'contact depatures'.

I wasn't like he was giving out 'land and hold short' instructions, PAR approaches and sequencing simultaneous ILS PRM vectors.

If the general public thinks (realizes?) that we're always on the edge of disaster but saved by steely-eyed professionals, they'd better start realizing that we need to be compensated appropriately.

"OMG! Hundreds of lives in those pilots hands!"

"OMG! SOMETHING bad could have happened!!!"

"Oh, look at those $89 fares..."

 

[ChasenSFO]

Kestrel...dude...seriously? It would be one thing if the kid issued a "go around" when he wasn't told to. You tell me what would have happened differently if Daddy mouthed the SAME clearances?

 

[Jshutt64]

Where is the common sense in letting a child into a tower and direct traffic? Especially at such busy one to boot. Why should children be allow to talk on the radio while grown adults aren't allowed to even step foot inside the tower unless they're strongly involved with aviation? My ex-RA who is in CTI here can't even visit the class D tower here in town.

These are the kinds of things that create easily preventable accidents which make the government invoke laws on the rest of us. I don't consider my POV to be ignorant, but rather looking past how "cute" this is and seeing just how whack this guy is for bringing his kids into an environment where even the slightest hiccup or distraction can cause the deaths of hundreds.

My opinion is just as valid as all the other non-controllers trying to say that it was "cute".

Dude I spent considerable time inside DFW tower before I was even ten. Nobody cared...at all.

How many times has everyone heard ATC laughing about something when they come back and transmit towards you? They're human, and they like to have fun.

Safety was in no way compromised by letting this kid give a few takeoff clearances. If there was ever an issue about anything, the dad would've taken over. All the pilots really loved the kid, and I'm sure it made everyone's day just a little better.

Hell, it made my day better just by listening to it on this forum.

I sincerely hope that the FAA doesn't take this guy's job away just for some innocent fun.

 

[boondr]

Holy delayed media reaction, Batman.

So the kid shot off a few 'cleared for takeoff' and 'contact depatures'.

I wasn't like he was giving out 'land and hold short' instructions, PAR approaches and sequencing simultaneous ILS PRM vectors.

If the general public thinks (realizes?) that we're always on the edge of disaster but saved by steely-eyed professionals, they'd better start realizing that we need to be compensated appropriately.

"OMG! Hundreds of lives in those pilots hands!"

"OMG! SOMETHING bad could have happened!!!"

"Oh, look at those $89 fares..."

Yeah we just need to tell them it is a cost saving measure, weekly salary is a box of Fruit Loops, 5 cans of Chef Boyardee Ravioli and family pack of Tyson Chick Nuggets. Benefits include all the juice boxes you can drink.

 

[MikeD]

We are scared of our own shadows anymore, because we might offend someone or their sensabilities. The PC movement is the reason that anyone with zero brain cells and no common sense, has the right to get indignant over the stupidist of things. America GET A FRIGGIN LIFE ALREADY...jeeez You mark my words they will witch hunt for the pilots next, bunch of idiots.

This here is the main reason I think the controller shouldn't have done this. Knowing the FAA, knowing the recent reaction to things like NW 188, knowing how the fun police have taken everything unique and interesting and squashed, this guy should've exercised better judgement if only to keep his own butt covered from this kind of fallout.

That's the reason it wasn't smart.

 

[derg]

Yeah we just need to tell them it is a cost saving measure, weekly salary is a box of Fruit Loops, 5 cans of Chef Boyardee Ravioli and family pack of Tyson Chick Nuggets. Benefits include all the juice boxes you can drink.

Oh shoot, when I was a kid, I'd mow the lawn for a 16-ounce "old school" returnable glass bottle of RC Cola.

 

[boondr]

This here is the main reason I think the controller shouldn't have done this. Knowing the FAA, knowing the recent reaction to things like NW 188, knowing how the fun police have taken everything unique and interesting and squashed, this guy should've exercised better judgement if only to keep his own butt covered from this kind of fallout.

That's the reason it wasn't smart.

I don't think anyone is going to argue with that. I said it when I first heard it two weeks ago. It was cute and harmless but nonetheless it was stupid. I knew this was coming as soon as I saw it posted on three different aviation websites.

 

[MikeD]

I don't think anyone is going to argue with that. I said it when I first heard it two weeks ago. It was cute and harmless but nonetheless it was stupid. I knew this was coming as soon as I saw it posted on three different aviation websites.

Agree. It was only a matter of time. Couple the above with how the media is hugely overblowing this thing for ratings, and its no wonder the story has gained a life of its own.

 

[MFT1Air]

This here is the main reason I think the controller shouldn't have done this. Knowing the FAA, knowing the recent reaction to things like NW 188, knowing how the fun police have taken everything unique and interesting and squashed, this guy should've exercised better judgement if only to keep his own butt covered from this kind of fallout.

That's the reason it wasn't smart.

In a way yes; in a way no.

You've heard that cliche' of "the buck stops here." In this situation, some official with at least one solid set should say to the general public in their politically correct tone to "calm the heck down."

On the news media scale of sensationalism, this one ranks significantly lower than the Air Force One "flyover" of New York. People alarmed? Yes. Justified? Perhaps. . .but get over it. Not a big deal.

Not even in the "public" eye had it not been for the sensationalism caused by the media. Now, simple people are believing a kid is controlling airplanes. Wow. Babbit. . .speak up! Quash this with a statement that says "not necessarily appropriate, but not a big deal."

 

[Baronguy18]

I consider bringing children into a tower to be an innately poor decision at best. Dangerous and lacking in common sense. What does he know about directing traffic? One false move and hundreds of people are toast, we all know this. This is not the FAA being the "big meanie", disciplinary action IMO is very well deserved in this matter. Keeping properly certificated people at the helm and radar screen while reducing distractions as much as possible is the least we can do to keep aviation safe.

This is not "cute", it's just dumb.

You must be joking...

Im getting very angry reading this thread. I feel really sorry for the father/controller. Sounds like hes going to lose his job when he shouldnt at all. People are so uptight jeeeeeeeeeeeeez

 

[ChasenSFO]

I wonder when the media is going to notice the only people saying "Give the guy a break" are pilots and controllers, which are the only people who actually use ATC.

 

[MikeD]

In a way yes; in a way no.

You've heard that cliche' of "the buck stops here." In this situation, some official with at least one solid set should say to the general public in their politically correct tone to "calm the heck down."

Fully agree, but good luck with finding a "buck stops here" bureaucrat in this day and age.

On the news media scale of sensationalism, this one ranks significantly lower than the Air Force One "flyover" of New York. People alarmed? Yes. Justified? Perhaps. . .but get over it. Not a big deal.

Agree. But look at the hoopla even that caused.

Not even in the "public" eye had it not been for the sensationalism caused by the media. Now, simple people are believing a kid is controlling airplanes. Wow. Babbit. . .speak up! Quash this with a statement that says "not necessarily appropriate, but not a big deal."

Precisely! Fully agree. But we have to consider the "lowest common denominator" factor here, if only to keep our own butts covered from the rank idiocy that goes on, like we're seeing with this.

 

[XLR99]

Holy delayed media reaction, Batman.

So the kid shot off a few 'cleared for takeoff' and 'contact depatures'.

I wasn't like he was giving out 'land and hold short' instructions, PAR approaches and sequencing simultaneous ILS PRM vectors.

If the general public thinks (realizes?) that we're always on the edge of disaster but saved by steely-eyed professionals, they'd better start realizing that we need to be compensated appropriately.

"OMG! Hundreds of lives in those pilots hands!"

"OMG! SOMETHING bad could have happened!!!"

"Oh, look at those $89 fares..."

Exactly.
I'm willing to be this kid knows more than 80% of us about what goes on in a tower, and until this week, he probably lived and breathed it. Now thanks to MSNBC, et al, his dad's unemployed and he gets to listen to 'experts' talk about how he and his dad almost killed half the people in NYC under a river of flaming JetA.
Run, fearful Americans, Run. It's your own shadow!!!!!! Quick, find a Congressman, make a new law. Find a lawyer, sue someone!!!

I've spent plenty of time in stressful jobs in the past 20ish years, and there's always going to be a time to break the tension or goof around abit, ESPECIALLY in these high-stress positions. This in no way means that people are letting their guard down or being unprofessional. It's just de-stressing, and it actually makes things run better most of the time. I don't think people who haven't been in such an environment can appreciate that; they assume that everything must always be soviet-era serious all the time.

Depending on the time of day, traffic and workload, towers are not the most formal of places. Coming up the stairs in one, I was greeted with the light gun shining in my face and a controller asking "Where were you on the night of the 27th?!?!" ATC is a stressful and rigid career with serious consequences to mistakes, and controllers need an outlet to relax and entertain themselves when it's slow.

OK now that's funny... how long until you could see again?

 

[SBI]

Wow really dude? How does politics fit into this discussion? :dunno:

Definitely not in a political sense; 'liberals' mentioned here to describe the general notion in this forum that most people here are extreme to the other side of blowing-out-of-proportion-media...by taking everything the easy way, the more 'giving a slack' approach, like "chill out dude, no worries", as I described at the end of the post.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

I wonder when the media is going to notice the only people saying "Give the guy a break" are pilots and controllers, which are the only people who actually use ATC.

I'm sure they have noticed, they probably tried to get their usual sources to find someone to go on the record condemning them, and couldn't find anyone.

NPR just did a 3 minute piece on it. I'm writing my letter to the FAA now...

 

[ATC RET 2003]

A quote from ABC's coverage:

The FAA said:

"This behavior is not acceptable and does not demonstrate the kind of professionalism expected from FAA employees," the agency said in a statement.

NATCA followed up with:

The air traffic controllers' union echoed the FAA, saying in a statement: "We do not condone this type of behavior in any way" and said it does not represent "the highest professional standards controllers set for themselves."

Last December, Randy Babbitt said:

Said Babbitt: "Santa and his crew have always shown extraordinary professionalism. I'm certain they'll pull off this year's flight without a hitch."

Here's a link to the site ("The Official Blog of the U.S. Secretary of Transportation") and a screenshot from it:

Seems to me if Santa is professional enough for the Administrator to authorize a global mission to cater to the wishes of the world's kids, that he (Babbitt) could let this thing with the Kennedy controller slide. After all, for all we know, maybe the only thing the kid asked for last Christmas was to clear a couple of JFK departures for takeoff.

Just a thought.

 

[Xiph]

What does he know about directing traffic? One false move and hundreds of people are toast, we all know this

The kid probably knows nothing about directing traffic. But that's okay because directing traffic is not what he was doing. And as far as your "one false move..." assertion, it would be nice if you could back that up. Let's assume that the kid did give a takeoff clearance too early. Are you seriously suggesting that it would automatically result in hundreds of people dying? Keep in mind that the real controller is plugged in and is also keeping an eye on things.

If the general public thinks (realizes?) that we're always on the edge of disaster but saved by steely-eyed professionals, they'd better start realizing that we need to be compensated appropriately.

:yeahthat:

It's funny - when we want more money, we're just glorified bus drivers (or maybe not all that glorified, but I digress). But then when we try to have a little responsible fun, we're five seconds away from causing armageddon at all times, and, depending on who you ask, are really only alive at the end of the day because of the grace of some higher power, and increased government regulation (of course). So...which one is it?