New CFI Temp, what is my expiration
- Thread starter Blip16
- Start date
anic:
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
Exp: 07/09
Blip16
Well-Known Member
makes the most sense to me
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
Well, you're right on both cases. Your temp certificate is valid only for 120 days, but your certificate expiration is up for renewal 7/09.
congradulations btw
congradulations btw
Blip16
Well-Known Member
thanks, i was a little confused from what i was hearing from the flight school i was working for. i should have just trusted my gut. i have been signing 07/09
Whats the point of the temp certificate expiring after 120 days? I understand you need the pilot certificate on board with you to be PIC, but what do you need the CFI certificate for? After the 120 days is up, what aren't you allowed to do until your permanent certificate comes?
Blip16
Well-Known Member
you need your CFI certificate on you to instruct? Where does it say that in the FARs?
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization.
You need your pilot certificate with you when you are exercising your pilot in command duties. A CFI certificate is not a pilot certificate.
There is no regulation that says you have to have your instructor certificate with you when you are instructing (afaik). When you think about it, the only real privilege your instructor certificate gives you is the ability to sign logbooks and 8710's. Anyone can give instruction, whether they have an instructor certificate or even a pilot certificate or not. Heck, all you even need to get paid for giving instruction is have a commercial pilot certificate.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
hey, there it is. so it was definetly some misinformation on the schools part
Blip16
Well-Known Member
but what exactly is "privileges of that flight instructor certificate"?
You can instruct in an airplane for pay with nothing but a commercial, yet at the same time you can't instruct in a plane unless you have your CFI certificate with you?
If you were ramp checked by the FAA, in order for them to punish you for being without your CFI certificate, they first have to prove you were intending to exercise your CFI privileges. How could they do this? Couldn't you just say the flight was just going to be a fun flight where no instruction was to be given?
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
I think you have supplied yourself with all of the necessary information.
§ 61.193 Flight instructor privileges.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:
(a) A student pilot certificate;
(b) A pilot certificate;
(c) A flight instructor certificate;
(d) A ground instructor certificate;
(e) An aircraft rating;
(f) An instrument rating;
(g) A flight review, operating privilege, or recency of experience requirement of this part;
(h) A practical test; and
(i) A knowledge test.
IE - you do NOT have the privilege as a commercial or private pilot to give instruction.
no, technically you cannot instruct without your CFI certificate in your possession as indicated by buickcfi's quote of 61..3(d)
but then you would be lying. what example would that send to a student? also if you were to continue to ATP, you would not be exhibiting "good moral character".
really? what is a CFI certificate then?
61.3(d)
again i disagree.
hope this helps in clarifying the reason for a CFI certificate it to retain the privilege to instruct
§ 61.193 Flight instructor privileges.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:
(a) A student pilot certificate;
(b) A pilot certificate;
(c) A flight instructor certificate;
(d) A ground instructor certificate;
(e) An aircraft rating;
(f) An instrument rating;
(g) A flight review, operating privilege, or recency of experience requirement of this part;
(h) A practical test; and
(i) A knowledge test.
IE - you do NOT have the privilege as a commercial or private pilot to give instruction.
no, technically you cannot instruct without your CFI certificate in your possession as indicated by buickcfi's quote of 61..3(d)
but then you would be lying. what example would that send to a student? also if you were to continue to ATP, you would not be exhibiting "good moral character".
previously answered
really? what is a CFI certificate then?
61.3(d)
again i disagree.
hope this helps in clarifying the reason for a CFI certificate it to retain the privilege to instruct
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Excellent!
"Since I can always commit a felony and lie to the FAA about what I was doing, I don't really need the certificate with me."
That list you posted has nothing to do with "instructor privileges" in the sense that I was referring to. You can do all the things listed in that paragraph without a CFI certificate.
So if you're a private pilot and I'm a private pilot and we fly together, I can't help you with crosswind landings because I don't have a CFI? Is it illegal to help you with you holding entries homework if I don't hold a CFII or a AGI?
Look in part 119 (or whichever the one that deals with commercial pilots). Somewhere it lists the privileges of the commercial license, and one of them is "give flight instruction". I'm in kind of a hurry so I can't give the exact wording.
When you get your CFI certificate, it doesn't replace anything. It is a completely seperate card. The same goes for ground instructor certificates.
In my wallet I have three cards. One is my pilot certificate (commercial), one if a flight instructor certificate, and the third is a ground instructor certificate.
Excellent!
"Since I can always commit a felony and lie to the FAA about what I was doing, I don't really need the certificate with me."
I wasn't advocating lying to the FAA. I was making the point that it is impossible to determine whether or not a person is exercising their privileges as a CFI unless the FAA has some kind of voice recorder on board that has proof of you giving instruction.
exleardriver
Well-Known Member
got to be the silliest ongoing debate i've read in my short time here. feel free to help out another pilot if you like if you aren't an instructor..it goes on all the time. sometimes it's helpful, sometimes not..those of us who have done countless bfr's can attest to that. of course only a flight instructor may log the training time in that pilot's logbook. i'm pointing out the obvious i'd hope to think..
bdhill1979
Gone West
Oh stick around awhile, they get downright :nana2: after a few beverages.