Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I like to live dangerously, but not THAT dangerously. *chomp*
NetJets crash in Laredo TX
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
If you have flown into EWR without informing me i and your mother are very disappointed
flyingpotato
Well-Known Member
Crash That Killed In-N-Out Officers Is Investigated
“In-N-Out President Richard A. Snyder of Newport Beach and Executive Vice President Philip R. West of Irvine apparently had broken a longstanding rule about not flying together and were both aboard the chartered jet.”—LA Times, 1993.Even with these policies in place they’re sometimes broken. More disciplined entities will launch multiple AC. There are more tailored security/privacy aspects that interpret aviation safety into a very unique blend, that 121 op specs alone wouldn’t necessarily be an improvement upon. The unfortunate fact are the facts that would correct the misperception of “91 cowboys” are very well protected under the strict adherence of “private aviation”. But that facts that don’t are very much in abundance. Often with glaring results.
WacoFan
Bigly
DropTank
Well-Known Member
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
Just speculation on my part, and based on when I remember having watched the video yesterday, but I think that’s exactly what happened. It seems the first pilot, after evacuating, is yelling for the other pilot to get out. Yet, it still takes a couple of minutes before the other pilot comes out, in which case there is further rescue efforts afterwards.
Later in the video, and after the 2nd pilot evacuates, it is mentioned that there is still a remaining person on board that was “heavy” in which it was further clarified they were heavy because he was unconscious. It does really appear to me the pilot tried all he could to evacuate the last passenger but was unable to.
The standard screw up, move up. Sounds like many govt agencies out there vis a vis who promotes.
Even with you volunteering for every position at your shop that is management minus the formal title, things are still messed up?
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Realistically, there is only so much you can do as one involved or one happening upon the accident. Jammed up wreckage, on fire, radiant heat going. No one equipped with fire bunker gear, no heavy firefighting equipment, no formal extrication equipment, and no training or experience with something like this; there’s only so much that can be done or can be expected to be done, given all those factors. And by what is seen in the video, the crew and those who happened upon the accident and LE, all did the best they could with the above factors they didn’t possess.
Reminds me of the United Express 5925 ground collision crash in Quincy, IL in 1996, where the surviving pax and captain were trapped in the wreckage of the 1900C in the survivable accident, and both a fellow pilot and another pilot, tried to get the cabin doors open, to no avail as fire took hold. The captain was talking to them through the cockpit window as the flames overtook the aircraft and everyone in it. The two pilots on scene did as much as they could with what they had, which was nothing but themselves.
Even with you volunteering for every position at your shop that is management minus the formal title, things are still messed up?
Corporate America, man! LOL
I’m being nudged certain directions, but I’m sure they feel it’s like trying to give a cat a bath. Ain’t gonna happen.
thepotato232
Well-Known Member
I've flown for operations with passengers/supernumeraries on board but not flight attendants, including examples from Parts 91, 121 and 135. Manufacturer and company emergency procedures dictate that the first officer shall be the first crewmember off of the aircraft, where they must direct the evacuation from the exterior of the plane and coordinate with first responders. Nobody's saying the f/o here is "the hero," we're saying he's doing his job - of which you remain consistently and loudly ignorant.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Yea that’s generally for things like an abort on the runway with a nice orderly evacuation. I get what your saying but…
That all goes out the window and human nature takes over when your hanging upside, on fire, in a broken airplane on a freeway trapped in a cockpit trying to kick your way out the window while everyone is screaming behind you.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say he was trying to stay alive and we see the panic set in, not “doing his job” which is likely the first time he’s every been in this situation so the manual just went out the window.
I’m not going to spend a second judging a guys moments after he thought he was going to probably burn to death.
And I’m saying this as someone who has done 13 (not a typo) 135 mandated survival classes from various schools, in ocean raft training, real fire-work, I have been “stranded” in Alaska and the desert, smoke in a cabin simulator that’s on hydraulics, on my hands and knees to find a exit.
My 135/91 training was 100000% longer, more realistic and serious then I ever got at my major airline which was pretty much “this is a raft, lol good luck”
But I was never trained in a way that was repeatable or actually threating. The smoke wasn’t toxic, the fire was contained, and I was never really at risk.
Which all that said, I’d still be clueless in that situation at that moment. Maybe I’d be the hero or maybe not. You’ll never know till your in it and the book be dammed.
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knot4u
Repeat Offender
I've actually been on fire and suffered third degree burns, I'm fully aware of the panic that happens. Odd thing about being on fire is once the skin and nerve endings have burned away, adrenaline and shock kick in and you might feel like it wasn't a big deal. It's a big deal. But the front end of that airplane was not on fire, it was certainly disconcerting and smoky but I'll postulate that the fatality in this accident wasn't a result of the fire. I like the fact these airplanes still carry a hatchet in the cockpit but I've always wondered why? What is it there for? The crew is not going to chop an exit through the windows, I've fired .223 rounds at scrap G Monster windshields and they don't penetrate, a .500 does.
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DropTank
Well-Known Member
Yeah, when I saw the attempted smashing of the windshield I'm thinking: Nah, boys. Wasting your time.
DropTank
Well-Known Member
Hanging upside down by the straps at night takes all of the plans you made for evac, and throws them in the trash.
Add a concussion, a dose of shock, and a big portion of fatigue and sensory overload and you'll be luck to know your name.
What do I ask of the crew?
Do your best.
Did THIS crew do their best?
Probably (likely)
And I'll maintain that view until I see massive proof of otherwise.
Add a concussion, a dose of shock, and a big portion of fatigue and sensory overload and you'll be luck to know your name.
What do I ask of the crew?
Do your best.
Did THIS crew do their best?
Probably (likely)
And I'll maintain that view until I see massive proof of otherwise.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Maybe they'll survive crashing in a forest and use it to chop down trees to build a shelter for the survivors and depending on the circumstances either build a raft or kill something for sustenance. Because everyone knows pilots are always the hero in the movie in their head. I prefer flying solo or with a mentor, the most nervous I've ever been flying was as PIC from Burbank to Catalina with three family members as passengers. The airplane was solid and reliable but I was on pins and needles crossing the 26 miles both ways.
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
Word on the street is they ran out of gas.
Which sort of makes sense considering the crash wasn't an inferno despite the wings being ripped off.
Which sort of makes sense considering the crash wasn't an inferno despite the wings being ripped off.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Fuel leak maybe? Unknown burn rate and thought the could make LRD?
knot4u
Repeat Offender
There was smoke and fire. I've heard a myth that the guy that invented Skydrol would demonstrate it by swallowing a cup of it. I've never been able to verify it but I can say Skydrol is no ones friend and gulping down a shot of the most inhumane liquid we've invented seems impossible. I used to work in a hydraulic shop and I got a friend a job there, I told him his hands were rugged enough but his eyes and nether regions weren't, wear safety glasses and wash your hands before you visit the mens room. He didn't listen and I just laughed. Skydrol will burn, it just has a higher ignition point than 5606.