NetJets crash in Laredo TX

[MikeD]

This is almost always a result of incompetent supervisors asking for more info and then failing to pass it on down the line. Sometimes it’s just controllers not knowing • about planes, but either way that info should be passed on after you give it once. Sometimes even when it is passed on the person it was passed on to failed to disseminate it in time. Hell I had a supervisor once roll the trucks because someone was returning to TEB because the pax forgot their wallet, but rolled them just because they were a returnee.

I imagine it’s sometimes like the proverbial telephone game when multiple ATC agencies get info passed from one to the next to the next, and the info changes in the process.

The quality of supervisor and management in general is at an all time low right now because the good controllers from busy places couldn’t get deviations approved to become supervisors so instead you have people from low level towers now being management at centers and tracons with no radar experience and are not required to become certified in the facilities that they’re supposed to supervise. For example, one of ours Operations Managers came here from MMU tower. They don’t even have a certified radar display. He is an Ops Manager at a level 12 Tracon and has never radar identified an aircraft in his life, let alone vectored anyone.

Only one way to change that. You can keep griping at your level about the incompetent management, which will change nothing; or you can promote to sup and work to make the positive changes the management cadre needs, if only just affecting positive change at the ops of your own facility.

 

[Roger Roger]

Only one way to change that. You can keep griping at your level about the incompetent management, which will change nothing; or you can promote to sup and work to make the positive changes the management cadre needs, if only just affecting positive change at the ops of your own facility.

He literally can’t.

the good controllers from busy places couldn’t get deviations approved to become supervisors

 

[MikeD]

Running government like a business.

Government agencies are the train that moves at 5 mph. You can get out and try to push it faster, you can get in front and try to pull it faster, or you can hop on and ride it. At best, you can make changes to what the scenery looks like or works like on top of that train….ie-your particular office or location…..make it look nicer or work a little better or more enjoyable or more efficient. But the macro agency itself, will always roll along at that 5 mph speed down the track no matter what.

 

[MikeD]

He literally can’t.

That sucks. The good controllers are literally what’s needed in the supervisory ranks. But….government agencies. See above.

 

[schloopy]

Not that I think its worth much given the source but I landed in LRD a few hours after the crash and our driver said his son called him all worked up after seeing the plane fly over with what appeared to be an engine on fire.

On the night of, in the Facebook post with the evacuation video on one of the local news pages, I noticed at least 3 or 4 locals commenting claiming to have individually seen it with visible flames. Make of that what you will.

 

[MikeD]

On the night of, in the Facebook post with the evacuation video on one of the local news pages, I noticed at least 3 or 4 locals commenting claiming to have individually seen it with visible flames. Make of that what you will.

There’s a good amount of useable wreckage for investigation that it should be easily determined if that was the case or not, with either engine. Unlike the B-52 crash at EDW, where the majority of the aircraft ended up as melted slag, leaving little physical evidence.

 

[CFI A&P]

I suspect it might be less about that and more about not having a minor issue become internet fodder.

Bingo, with the proliferation of automatic frequency scanners that generate content for bloggers, trigger words will certainly get their attention.

I don't know where I picked up the notion, but I was under the impression that they requested the divert somewhere over west central Mehico.

Another social media forum said that AUS customs might have denied them, therefore going to another AOE. Disclaimer: I have put zero effort into verifying that.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Re: The eternal silly 91/135 vs. 121 pursefights: Of COURSE 91/135 is "less safe". It's a totally different operation. The germane question is more like "given the differences in risk that are just baked into even asking the question in the first place, is 91/135 *relatively* more dangerous than one would expect, all other things being equal?" And, as per previous posts, my experience would suggest "sometimes yes, sometimes no, but more often yes than anyone should feel comfortable with".

 

[NovemberEcho]

Only one way to change that. You can keep griping at your level about the incompetent management, which will change nothing; or you can promote to sup and work to make the positive changes the management cadre needs, if only just affecting positive change at the ops of your own facility.

The front line managers have little say in anything other than running the break board. The rot goes up far higher than them. The FAA wants managers who do what they’re told, not what actually improves the operation. We’ve had two ATM’s removed from their position here since the move because they pushed back against what thr FAA wanted when they could see how unrealistic it was with what is happening here. The current ATM hasn’t worked traffic since she was at Bismarck Tower, and thinks we are lying when we say the frequencies go out. We firmly believe that very soon the FAA will be telling managers to check people out that don’t even have recommendations from their trainers just because our staffing is about to be •ed when people start returning to N90 at the end of July, leaving us with net -3 certified controllers from when they moved us down here.