I've done 4 CONUS and 1 OCONUS moves with McDonnell-Douglas / Boeing and 2 CONUS moves with GE and they have always paid for everything and then some.
Negotiating domiciles
- Thread starter Low_Level_Hell
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I've done 4 CONUS and 1 OCONUS moves with McDonnell-Douglas / Boeing and 2 CONUS moves with GE and they have always paid for everything and then some.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
That proves my point. I also know that my old man's job required three moves when I was a kid, he wasn't a super high up exec but just a teamlead. They helped us move as a family all three times. When I told him I was being based in LA, he was absolutely dumbfounded when he learned it was all on me, not a penny from SkyWest to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country at a months notice. His response when I sent him a picture of my bunk bed in my crash pad was priceless.. "Should have just been a garbage man, at least you'd be able to afford your own room!" He was obviously joking, but at the same time he could not believe what is entailed in the career outside of flying planes.
Seems to me the airlines have just taken advantage of the way pilots accept everything as they can...live wherever they want and fly a JET!!
By the Friday morning looks of some of my colleagues, I would be surprised if the seat pocket bags didn't get rotated more than on a normal airlineDid they call the 146 "Janet" and refer to Woodford as "The Range"?
oh, did I mention the 70% COLA for the OKC to Long Beach relocation?
Its still different perks for different employers. If my current / past employers thought for one minute they could fill those gaps without offering up what they do, they would drop it in a heartbeat!
When C130 AMPS was shut down in Long Beach and moved to OKC a few folks that were highly paid on California scale (Whole career in the area) complained that they didn't want to move, they were politely told "You're not getting a relo offer, but you're more than welcome to apply for a similar role in the new location" Read as "We're now paying flyover state wages, get to the back of the line"
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
oh, did I mention the 70% COLA for the OKC to Long Beach relocation?
Its still different perks for different employers. If my current / past employers thought for one minute they could fill those gaps without offering up what they do, they would drop it in a heartbeat!
When C130 AMPS was shut down in Long Beach and moved to OKC a few folks that were highly paid on California scale (Whole career in the area) complained that they didn't want to move, they were politely told "You're not getting a relo offer, but you're more than welcome to apply for a similar role in the new location" Read as "We're now paying flyover state wages, get to the back of the line"
I'm sure any company would choose to not pay if they could. I'm telling you, that is why the regionals are feeling a shortage right now. No one wants to put themselves into the stressful situation of being financially unable to live somewhere, forced to fund their own move and try to pay that debt off while making 2k a month.
I don't think it's about wanting it more or less, but it is about what people are willing to put up with. 15 years ago the cost of living was not as high as it is now on the west coast (the PacNW anyway). Now it is soaring with no end in sight, tried to be glass half full and move my wife to LA. Could not find a place for less than 2k a month. Which is all of what I make while on reserve, didn't take much math to realize that was a potential • sand which.
Honestly, that is why we are seeing this switch in pilot personalities and mentalities. LCA saying new hires are argumentative, cocky and entitled. That is because in all honesty only those types of people are the ones who can afford flight training plus a degree now and days. People who come from money get the leg up, are all people that come from money that way? No, but from my observations so far a very high percentage are. It is sad to see, I have so many bright friends who love aviation and would make great pilots. But they see how I've been living the last four years and choose to stay clear. This industry is in dire need of change, but it won't change until its past the tipping point. I have applied to other jobs in the past, gotten calls from Gresham PD, Portland PD, Port of Portland and they all offer compensation packages above what I'm looking at in the next few years. My stubbornness and hope that this will pay off one day keeps me in the game, but it's not enough for many people closing in on 30 with hopes of having a family in the near future. That could all change with something as simple as a CoL adjustment, or home basing..
I know this is way easier said than done, but think about an airline like SkyWest. It attracts applicants because of the base selection. So how about a home basing solution in any city the airline has a base in, include a dead head on both sides of the trip and boom, watch the resume stack triple.
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A lot of that is why I gave up trying to build hours and career jump. I would have loved to do it and it was plausible with one young one left in school, but after getting married again and adding two more under 5 there's just no way. Couple that with being 50, and facing what would amount to be a six figure paycut, on top of dragging the family around like that....whole lotta nope.
Also doesn't help that I'm comfy and into the "Get off my damn lawn" stage of life, not sure I would react well being at the tail end of a seniority list or in a union environment at all.
Good on those that can manage to stick it out and reach the pinnacle @Derg Level
I mean, hell, he can retire on the Southernjets video residuals alone!We could 100% guarantee a base on the east coast, yes.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
A lot of that is why I gave up trying to build hours and career jump. I would have loved to do it and it was plausible with one young one left in school, but after getting married again and adding two more under 5 there's just no way. Couple that with being 50, and facing what would amount to be a six figure paycut, on top of dragging the family around like that....whole lotta nope.
Also doesn't help that I'm comfy and into the "Get off my damn lawn" stage of life, not sure I would react well being at the tail end of a seniority list or in a union environment at all.
Good on those that can manage to stick it out and reach the pinnacle @Derg Level
So here is the question. A regional airline that starts at 50k first year says.. "We will hire you, and you can stay where you live and not worry about commuting costs or we will cover your moving costs and adjust the pay to the CoL in the area your based". Would you bite??
Personally? Likely not now. I'm 800 hours from employ-ability, I love what I do now supporting my customers in places of the world many wouldn't go to. Spent 25+ years supporting the warfighter in some way, shape or form.
If I was closer? Maybe, would depend on what's after year one pay as I still have two to put through college. Well one as the youngest isn't aware but he's going to the Naval Academy
I'm sure the wife can find a nursing slot almost anywhere. At 50+ I wouldn't be in a position to max out a Major's career, so maximizing what I could do with time left, would be the key. Though, I was never really interested in moving people. Boxes would have been my preferred choice.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
Personally? Likely not now. I'm 800 hours from employ-ability, I love what I do now supporting my customers in places of the world many wouldn't go to. Spent 25+ years supporting the warfighter in some way, shape or form.
If I was closer? Maybe, would depend on what's after year one pay as I still have two to put through college. Well one as the youngest isn't aware but he's going to the Naval Academy
But we both agree, if the airlines offered a bit more in the line of pay and easening the burden of financial stress you would consider the move.
I'm sure there are many many guys like you, bright and capable of being an excellent crew member that laugh at the current conditions in the industry. Therefore, the airlines will never attract the talent they so desperately say they need. Instead they cry about the hour requirement and can't figure out why people aren't still flooding the gates at HQ
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
@JDean3204, the trade off is you can live wherever you want.
Would you agree to live within 30 minutes drive time of whatever domicile the airline put you in, in exchange for cola or a paid move to that town?
Would you agree to live within 30 minutes drive time of whatever domicile the airline put you in, in exchange for cola or a paid move to that town?
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
Honestly, yes I would. But that is just me. Yes even if it was DTW, or NYC or LA.
I did it in the military, was not happy that I got Norfolk originally... but moved there and made home out of it for 5 years
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
What about Moline. Or Evansville. And then, 1 year later when they close it and move you to Denver. But before you actually get there they send you to Richmond, VA.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I get where you are going with this. Yes bases in the regionals are barely stable at best, but still if my moves were financially covered I'd move when they told me to. Again, that's just me..
I know many pilots love the fact they can live in places like Spokane WA, and fly to work in DFW. It is a good perk.. when your paychecks allow that ability to afford bills back home plus commuting costs.
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
Before this thread gets side tracked in JC fashion, I will just say that the OP had a valid question from the outside looking in. Many jumped on them, saying that's a good way not to get a job, or somewhere along the lines of keep dreaming dude.
I just wanted to defend the fact it is plausible that some choose not to fly 121 because of the current culture of live where ya want but it'll cost ya time and money.
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
Certainly. Hell I like where I live enough to consider finding something else to do locally if MSP goes away (it isn't).
However, buried in the paperwork you sign when you sign on is a statement that you agree to abide by the terms and conditions of employment. No sign, no fly jettes.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
That is the truth. You knew that when signing, I knew that and so did everyone else. We accept that as it is what it is, I was just trying to throw out the crazy idea of changing that thought process during the interview, job offer and signing process. Maybe a little assistance in the scenario that if MSP closes, well now you're a commuter. So that's your loss as of now, but how about a dead head clause that would allow you to know you'll get to let's say DEN the day of and home the last day of a trip. Or you can't make it home, so here is a hotel room until your dead head in the morning. Little things like that would really help the current "OMG, where are the pilots at??!!" Situation.