My side of the story (Falcon F/O)

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higney85 said:
most carriers (ALPA, in house, IBT, non-union) honor jumpseat agreements. So for the spirit folks who were on a layover in (insert city here) they could get back to DTW on DL and head to the picket line.
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From the Delta MEC:

This is Captain Buzz Hazzard, Delta MEC Communications Committee Chairman on Monday, June 14, 2010 with one item.
Spirit pilots continue to need our assistance. The Delta MEC Jumpseat Committee is asking Delta pilots to assist Spirit pilots with their jumpseating needs. We have been informed that Spirit management has rescinded CASS authorization for Spirit pilots. As such, Spirit pilots are not permitted access to the cockpit jumpseat. However, this does not limit a Spirit pilot’s ability to “flow-back” to a cabin seat. CASS is only required for Cockpit Access.
Delta Flight Operations management has approved continued flow-back provisions for Spirit pilots.
The Jumpseat Committee is asking Delta pilots to be especially vigilant for Spirit pilots requesting to jumpseat (flow-back). We ask that you employ professional, proactive measures to assist Spirit pilots, which include, but are not limited to, the following:
 If possible, upon reaching your gate, scan the area for any potential jumpseaters, and engage them prior to proceeding to the aircraft.
 Query the agent to determine if any jumpseaters have checked in (specifically Spirit pilots).
 If necessary, remind agents that Flight Ops management has approved continued flow- back access for Spirit pilots(availability permitting), but not cockpit access.
 Be cognizant of the agent’s primary duty during the boarding process and do not at anytime exercise anything but professional, courteous decorum with gate agents.
Please direct any comments, questions, or concerns about this matter to the Delta MEC Jumpseat Committee at DALjumpseat@alpa.org.
That’s all for now.
 
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You should take a poly test. Prove that you flew the first leg not knowing it was a struck flight. That might help.
Not everyone will see it that way though. Most people, I think would have also flown that second leg. Even the ones calling you a scab.

There are some guys though that would still crucify you even if you called out sick at the end of the first flight. It's just the way it is.

Sad thing is you might even be a nice guy who did a stupid thing.

Your Captain knew the whole time? That's messed up. That would be my foot in his ass.
 
ThatOtherDude said:
You should take a poly test. Prove that you flew the first leg not knowing it was a struck flight.
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You are missing the point here.... It doesn't matter whether he knew or didn't know.

He flew the flight.

He's a scab.

Mitigating circumstances don't matter.
 
I thank you [OP] for coming here and sharing your story.

I can not condone your actions, but I wish you the best in your discussions with the Spirit MEC.

Thank you, fellow JCers, for keeping this thread out of the gutter. This is a very important topic, and I'm very glad we have the opportunity to have this discussion in a professional manner.
 
ThatOtherDude said:
Most people, I think would have also flown that second leg. Even the ones calling you a scab.
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Not me. I guarantee it and those that know me would definitely vouch for me.

I would NEVER operate a flight that was known and defined struck work.

Getting fired from a pissant company like Falcon is no big deal. Income as a Falcon F/O could be replaced easily doing just about anything.
 
I_Money said:
I think you also have to remember Onno didn't grow up in the US - so the intricate details of US employee/employer relations and the history of pilot strikes isn't something he is particularly knowledgeable of.
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Fair enough, let's ask him how long he has been in the USA for. This is sort of a rhetorical question but we might as well have the source answer this.

Onno, when did you move to the United States?
 
FlyingSig said:
Getting fired from a pissant company like Falcon is no big deal. Income as a Falcon F/O could be replaced easily doing just about anything.
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While I would not have found myself in this situation in the first place, getting fired as a pilot in this economy is a big deal.
 
MQAAord said:
This is a very important topic, and I'm very glad we have the opportunity to have this discussion in a professional manner.
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I agree this is an extremely important topic to talk about. Most of the people that lurk in this forum are at the beginning stages of their aviation career. They have not even begun to think about how certain career decisions can affect their entire professional lives.

Not everyone wants to end up at a legacy airline, and that's ok. But it's safe to say everybody wants to work for a safe and profitable company that respects their professional pilots and hopefully compensates them accordingly.

A decision to scab lawfully struck work does not mean you will never fly again. It does almost guarantee however that you will never work for a company that even halfway resembles what you set out to work for when you started this career.

It does mean that you will have to answer for your decision the rest of your life. That fact is undisputed.
 
BobDDuck said:
You are missing the point here.... It doesn't matter whether he knew or didn't know.

He flew the flight.

He's a scab.

Mitigating circumstances don't matter.
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What? It matters. I think there's a massive difference between
knowingly crossing and flying out of ignorance.
He's still a scab by definition but I think it's important to know whether he's a scumbag scab or just a scab as a result of unfortunate circumstances beyond his control.
 
Nick said:
Fair enough, let's ask him how long he has been in the USA for. This is sort of a rhetorical question but we might as well have the source answer this.

Onno, when did you move to the United States?
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1994. But I have never been much of an activist. At that time I could not even work here.
 
ThatOtherDude said:
What? It matters. I think there's a massive difference between
knowingly crossing and flying out of ignorance.
He's still a scab by definition but I think it's important to know whether he's a scumbag scab or just a scab as a result of unfortunate circumstances beyond his control.
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the second leg is indefensible...with the information we have, he knew that he was going to fly Spirit flying, but just didn't think it a big deal.

It was a big deal.
 
gtpilot said:
While I would not have found myself in this situation in the first place, getting fired as a pilot in this economy is a big deal.
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No one is arguing that. However, economies improve. Scab status does not.

And there were other options to take to cancel the second leg instead of flying it i.e. blaming the bum knee, call in sick, etc.
 
gtpilot said:
While I would not have found myself in this situation in the first place, getting fired as a pilot in this economy is a big deal.
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First, being without a flying job with little experience is one thing (as many of the very low time furloughed pilots on this board can attest). But there are plenty of flying jobs out there right now.... they just not be the "dream" job you want.

When I got furloughed after 9/11 which was arguably just as bad an environment for pilot hiring. I checked out as a CFI to keep current and that led to being interviewed for 4 flying jobs in an 8 month period and I got furloughed 600 people after the 1st person got a head start on my job search.

Second.... most pilots are smart people (scabs excluded).... you don't need to fly to make ends meet during tough times.
 
Componere lites said:
1994. But I have never been much of an activist. At that time I could not even work here.
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Thanks for responding.

Interesting times, how we as a nationwide group of pilots are talking to one of the two pilots that flew struck work in this strike live on the internet like some kind of conference call.

Anyway, Onno, I'm curious to know what your aspirations are in aviation. Have your goals historically been to eventually be employed at a carrier such as Spirit/Southwest/Delta/FedEx/AirTran etc.?

The only reason I ask is I am curious as to how you were not aware that the Spirit pilots were getting close to going on strike.

I was 22 when I started flying 121 and I knew that flying just one leg of struck work would be a big deal if I ever had the 'opportunity' to do that. I think that is typical though. Most people know that, even when they start, since they've put at least a little bit of time into learning about the career they're about to start.

Even though your flying hours have been spread out over the years, you have had plenty of time to learn about this stuff, whether you are at a union carrier or not.

It is your apology itself that leads me to believe that you are interested in working for the type of carrier that can go on strike, otherwise I don't think you would care if you flew through their strike or not.
 
gtpilot said:
While I would not have found myself in this situation in the first place, getting fired as a pilot in this economy is a big deal.
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true but I'd much rather take my lumps with that then deal with this you know what storm he has now.
 
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