My side of the story (Falcon F/O)

[SpiraMirabilis]

What about the Falcon F/As that were working this flight? Are they facing the same scrutiny about working this flight?

At AA, the scab F/As from the strike of 93 are still very much ostracized to this day. One even went so far as to write a guest article in the APFA union magazine about her sorrow over scabbing, and that if she could go back in time she wouldn't do it again. Her excuse at the time was the "family to feed" etc, excuse. She talks about how none of the other F/As talks to her, except as is required per the manual to complete job duties. It's a very lonely life. The article was written in the spring of 2001, as we were in negotiations again, and facing another possible strike. The article didn't repair what she'd done, her label still stands, but she was trying to tell others not to make the same mistake she had.

The Spirit MEC did not define flight attendants in the struck work definition. Except, I guess if the flight attendant was ALSO a commercial pilot or ATP.

 

[deadstick]

Onno, I will acknowledge up front that I don't know you. I appreciate your attempt to explain your side of what happened on this controversial issue and I will also give you some credit for a willingness on your part to accept some lumps for what you now clearly see as a bad decision.

Let me be clear about something - I work with some individuals that crossed picket lines and some of them are even nice guys. That being said, they are, and always will be scabs. It is something that can never be erased or atoned for. They exist in a world much like someone with a disability - they get by, but their co-workers all know who and what they are.

Here is my take on your situation. The current state of the airline industry has pilots on the brink - physically, emotionally and financially. Pilots have had it with management teams that have pushed things too far. Pilots are now starting to push back and the Spirit Strike may be just the start of things to come. Your decision to fly this flight at this particular time will likely cost you your career in mainstream aviation. Your timing was as bad as your judgment. Pilots will see you as a spineless pawn being told (or tricked) by management to screw your fellow pilots - and you did it. You also have the disadvantage (unlike the 83-85 Continental Scabs), of being one name on a list of two pilots who flew struck Spirit work. Your name will be remembered.

I think I have a reputation on this forum for reason and common sense - at least I hope I do. That being said, my advice to you would be to consider other non-aviation career options. I just don't see any meaningful way for you to salvage the predicament you find yourself in.

Perhaps others can find truth and the importance of character in your misfortune.

I wish you well in your weighty decisions ahead.

Great post.


A couple of things I have been thinking about through all of this are ALPA's ability to "get the word out" and what other Falcon (YX) pilots think of this guy. I have said for awhile that ALPA needed to send a letter and a "journeyman" membership to each newly certificated commercial pilot. ALPA need to get the word out to pilots when they are just starting out. If the person just got the ticket for the heck of it, then the letter will probably end up in the trash, but I'd be willing to bet that a greater percentage of people with a CPL will want to utilize it and should be mentored.

This whole story is so far fetched that it starts seem plausible. Forgivable, no. The empathy I feel for this guy is because I, too, have had many false starts in trying to make this career take off. I pieced together my tickets over several years working, training, and having a family. I think I had almost 3000 hrs and an ATP before I had any exposure to ALPA and a CBA. Also, I have seen how dispatch can try to talk people, especially the newbies, into all kinds of things.

I also wonder if he flew with any of the YX pilots from Falcon. If so, maybe they can shed some light on the situation and their perceptions of his experience.

I think I asked this before, but why didn't you call somebody from San Salvador? Yea, it would have been expensive, but if you were overwhelmed by this situation and needed guidance...tell the CA you have to hit the head, get off the airplane, find a payphone (if your cell didn't work). Call somebody. This inaction is pretty bad. If you were tooling around in a piston twin and your right engine erupted in fire. Would you just sit there and watch it burn or would you do something about it? You definitely did the right thing once you returned. Why did you wait? Also, what had you been doing while on sick leave? Did the local media not cover that an airline was going on strike and going to strand local passengers?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I would have used the phone at the gate. The call gets charged to Spirit!


Well, I wouldn't have made it to San Salvadore, or even onto the plane... but you know.

 

[Polar742]

Yes, I was hired in CHQ in 2000 but washed out in the training. If you think that that gave an understanding of unions, then you are mistaken. I was far to busy drinking from the fire-hose... Anyway, it was a terrible experience. The check airman and his buddy my instructor gave me a check ride in the actual airplane (Saab 340A) in Pittsburgh. The maneuvers included doing approach to landing stalls in icing conditions at night in the clouds to the point where the landing gear was frozen stuck in the extended postion. I didn't do to well in that situation. Besides, I had no experience with ice anyway. And so that was the end of it. It was the first of several very frustrating experiences in my "career".

Yes, there were a couple because the FlightSafety sim in KSAT broke. They send me home and told me to finish me up in the airplane. I waited 4 weeks for the first call and had 1 hour of instruction in Pittsburgh. 5 weeks later they suddenly called me that I had a checkride the next day. So I had to do my checkride in the actual airplane in Pittsburgh with 1 hour of training over a 9 week period.

This is entirely plausible. Year 2000 was a very busy one at CHQ, as SAABs were being added and the ERJs were coming fast and furious.

That being said, as I know the instructors/checkairmen in the program, I'm not thrilled with them being called out publicly. The airline was pretty discombobulated during this time, and I make no excuses for it, but the pass rates were still very high.

 

[subpilot]

This is entirely plausible. Year 2000 was a very busy one at CHQ, as SAABs were being added and the ERJs were coming fast and furious.

That being said, as I know the instructors/checkairmen in the program, I'm not thrilled with them being called out publicly. The airline was pretty discombobulated during this time, and I make no excuses for it, but the pass rates were still very high.

What got me on the story was the one hour of training over 9 weeks and then the checkride. If it was true then that was a messed up situation.

 

[derg]

Componere lites, frankly I don't know why you're still here. When was the last time you had pilots taking photos of you in the terminals? You didn't see what was happening during the whole ordeal from pickup that phone to actually starting the engines?? Most don't belive you and your stupidity. Just let it go and accept what you did. You won't get any sympathy especially from ALPA pilots. Good luck, you're going to need it.

I thought it would be a good opportunity to get people thinking AND talking.

Maybe people will develop a little more Socratic "mistrust" of strange assignments during labor turmoil, be cognizant about the resources you have to determine if flying is struck work or not and well.

Spirit WILL try this again, probably even with some of our companies so get familiar with definitions of struck work, if you have questions, call the strike center at (800) 662-2572 and ask questions if anything concerns you.

I can not forgive the struck work, but I take this as a rare opportunity to learn from the situation.

Like I said, Spirit will try it again, our companies may or may not have regard for the definition of struck work so educate yourselves, find resources, ASK QUESTIONS, stay unified.

And if you're on reserve, be VERY PARANOID about assignments.

Put that national strike hotline number in your cellphone and be ready to use it.

There is no excuse for crossing a picket line. Absolutely none.

 

[Baronman]

What got me on the story was the one hour of training over 9 weeks and then the checkride. If it was true then that was a messed up situation.

Agreed. Stupid of the company to invest in a pilot, only to set up a situation very slanted against them (as far as the story goes).

 

[jima7011]

Dang--I am not even a pro pilot and even I knew Spirit was on strike--

 

[Componere lites]

I think for those of us who aspire to enter the 121 world, all of us would be well advised to read every word in this thread. This is a life lesson unfolding. Everyone on this site likes to fly airplanes, but this is the other side of what goes on. Take note and hopefully no one on this site ever gets themselves into such a situation, as unlikely as it is to "run into" one.

To the OP, I respect you coming forward, and wish you luck in your career as it seems that you are in a whole mess of trouble. I must say, one question that was asked really made me wonder, and has yet to be answered. Did you or the CA not say "Welcome aboard Spirit flight..." over the PA? Surely you didn't say "Welcome aboard flight NKS1234"...or was the PA made during your walk around or while you were getting your picture taken perhaps(though I know first hand you can clearly hear PAs from the inside of a jetway)?

The pax had already boarded when I arrived, the captain had already picked up the clearance and loaded the FMS. I did a quick w&b, and we left. From the moment I arrived the captain never used the PA in my presence.

 

[derg]

I'm going to talk to Donatelli and try to get of eLiterature on struck work and the resources that we have to help us all out.

I've got to apologize for at least not having something up at this point, but I'll do the best I can to get ahold of it.

Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

[WacoFan]

The Spirit MEC did not define flight attendants in the struck work definition. Except, I guess if the flight attendant was ALSO a commercial pilot or ATP.

Unless they are working for Spirit or an alter-ego as a PILOT I don't think it would matter what ratings the FA held. If the FA also had a CPA would you hold her accountable for an audit at an airline, even if she had nothing to do with it? I understand what you're saying, but what if a controller also held an ATP (and I've known a couple that did)? If a controller has a commercial or an ATP, and they are union, should he not work a scab flight? Same logic applies as to your example.

 

[Hacker15e]

Ignorance is not an excuse.

How can this be true? If someone actually does not know they are flying struck work, how can they be held accountable for it?

Although we live in the 'information age', it's not the omniscience age, and it IS possible to NOT know about labor happenings at companies other than your own.

I understand and sympathize with the view of scabs, but aren't we really just talking about people who willingly and knowingly cross a picket line and fly struck work? Seems to me that THOSE are the people who deserve the wrath that industry pilots have to offer.

It is possible to be "ignorant", and not be an idiot, live with your head up your arse, etc. It just means you don't know...and that shouldn't be a crime. Your statement is saying that omniscience is the standard, and the profession is willing to punish anyone who doesn't meet that standard.

 

[DV8Pilot]

I understand and sympathize with the view of scabs, but aren't we really just talking about people who willingly and knowingly cross a picket line and fly struck work? Seems to me that THOSE are the people who deserve the wrath that industry pilots have to offer.

Fine.

That being said the SCAB FO should have never worked the return flight. That airframe should have NEVER moved once it got to San Salvidor.

 

[MQAAord]

I see what you're saying, Hacker, however, as an example, is the FAA going to have any sympathy for a pilot busting a reg with the excuse that they didn't know about it?

I think (and certainly this is entirely my own opinion) that we need to make ourselves aware of what is going on around us. The whole concept of "making ourselves aware of all available information pertaining to the flight" and all that. It's up to us to be aware of our surroundings, our situations, and our actions.

 

[Bumblebee]

I see what you're saying, Hacker, however, as an example, is the FAA going to have any sympathy for a pilot busting a reg with the excuse that they didn't know about it?

I think (and certainly this is entirely my own opinion) that we need to make ourselves aware of what is going on around us. The whole concept of "making ourselves aware of all available information pertaining to the flight" and all that. It's up to us to be aware of our surroundings, our situations, and our actions.

The regs are pretty well published, and this was a new and fluid situation... I can understand that the light was just coming on at spool up on the take off roll, but he knew FOR SURE on the way back, and just because it was a hard decision doesn't mean it is a forgivable decision.

 

[Kristie]

I'm going to talk to Donatelli and try to get of eLiterature on struck work and the resources that we have to help us all out.

I've got to apologize for at least not having something up at this point, but I'll do the best I can to get ahold of it.

Ignorance is not an excuse.

Maybe when you talk to Donatelli, you can see if any of the strike personel think it'd be a wise move to come and take up an education segment at the Aviation Career Expo...so we can make sure people are informed about this stuff (non-airline included)...i can see that ALPA really needs to improve their education tactics.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I was called in last minute, and was told to hurry. The pilot that was supposed to fly could not find his company I.D. They said that in order to speed things up I should come in the clothes I had on and change into my uniform in the cockpit. I did not do this and quickly changed into my uniform at home. In retrospect it starts to make sense to me now why they wanted me to walk in civilian clothes through the terminal...
...
...
I rushed through the terminal and the security screening to the gate. When I entered the jet bridge, there were a couple of pilots taking a picture of me which struck me as odd. While rushing past them I even asked bewildered: "You are making a picture of me?" They kind of smiled and said "yes".

Mr. Bulk tells us everything we need to know right here. Since when are civil airline operations clandestine operations? The other guy couldn't find his ID- but they wanted him to get dressed in the cockpit? What sort of event is occurring that he must not be seen as a pilot on duty- in an airport?

Furthermore- what circumstance requires such rush that you can't stop, think, and ask a question? Is there something operationally relevant to my changing my clothes on the flight deck of an airplane?

The second paragraph I quoted is the other first, immediate disparity I noticed. How many of us have heard the TSA recordings about strangers taking pictures in airports? Of flight crew members? Given the previous mention of management wanting him to change on the airplane, why would this not alarm him?

In a post 9/11 world if this doesn't raise serious suspicion in any pilot's mind they're delusional.. or completely out of touch with reality.

Mr. Bulk is clearly covering up his own suspicions of the operation by claiming ignorance. While not everyone has such a though process towards security issues, the obvious chain of events in which suspicion should have been raised even if he HAD been totally ignorant was ignored.

Mr. Bulk then not only flew the first struck leg which he claims ignorance of, but the second as well, which he claims he knew of.

At this point, it would seem obvious that Mr. Bulk merely feared termination as a result of the situation and did not consider circumstances outside his own. Nor did he consider others. Lastly, he has FREELY ADMITTED TO FLYING WORK HE KNEW TO BE STRUCK.

He's a scab, and nothing will change that. Period. Ignorance by accident... or intent... is a moot point.

He's done. I will not suffer a fool. Nobody else should either.

Mr. Bulk, I suggest you resign your current position now- the other Falcon pilots support Spirit pilots and their strike- I cannot imagine life will be pleasant for you if you remain.

After that, I suggest you look to other career fields for employment. You're done in aviation.

The unemployment office will be glad to assist you, I'm sure.

SCAB.

 

[Hacker15e]

I see what you're saying, Hacker, however, as an example, is the FAA going to have any sympathy for a pilot busting a reg with the excuse that they didn't know about it?

Apples and oranges. One is a regulation that pre-exists before we make the decision to become a pilot. Knowledge of that reg is part of the price of admission. When a new reg is made, the FAA has formal processes to make sure that all pilots are aware when a rule change is going to be made.

The same cannot be said for when a strike is going to occur.

The people who are talking about this on internet forums aren't the right crowd to understand how it can happen -- information spreads through aviation forums like wildfire and, indeed, you would have to be deaf/blind/mute to not know about a strike that was poised to occur.

Unfortunately, everyone is not as plugged in as those of us on these forums are. Especially if someone works for a non-union carrier (like, uhm, say, the thousands of military pilots out there), it is ENTIRELY possible for someone to literally not know that a strike is going to occur. There are plenty of pilots who are not internet rats, nor do they have formal channels of communication by which information about a strike would flow. If I hadn't read about it on the aviation forums I frequent, I literally would have never heard about the Spirit strike before an NPR report on it yesterday.

 

[Hacker15e]

Fine.

That being said the SCAB FO should have never worked the return flight. That airframe should have NEVER moved once it got to San Salvidor.

That I agree with.

 

[I_Money]

I think the whole situation has got silly - he has apologized, he wants to donate the money to the striking workers, join them on the line and at the end of the day it was 2 legs - it has not compromised the strike.