My FBO rant

[MikeD]

I totally understand.

But a few things to point out.

1) the lady did NOT mention it when I called.
2) it was a class "D" airport, not entirely a major airport.
3) the other FBO on the field did not charge.

I understand they have to make money. But somethings you just gotta let go.

I test drove a new car today, considering a purchase. Could you imagine if the car lot charged me $10 for the test drive to "cover their insurance"?

The lesson learned is, call ahead. Or do some preflight homework on the FBOs on the field, and choose one that fits your needs, for what you will be doing.

 

[jgheggie]

It's generally accepted that once you have your PPL, you no longer have the student pilot label.

By that logic, if timebuilding for an ATP and at 1000 hours, you'd still be a student pilot.

True.

...when we checked the airplane out, we were both listed under "student" on the schedule. And it's all part of the "program". So I wore the title of student for the time being.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Just playing devils advocate. 'Aint nothing free, and that goes double for asphalt at a major airport.

Avgas taxes.

 

[MikeD]

True.

...when we checked the airplane out, we were both listed under "student" on the schedule. And it's all part of the "program". So I wore the title of student for the time being.

You may be a flight student.

But as an instrument rated pilot, you are hardly any sort of "student pilot".

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

They paid insurance coverage to park you. If the golf cart hit the plane, you would have expected them to pay right?

Uh, yes? If you as an FBO cause property damage, you pay for it. If you elect to pay an insurance company do that for you, that is up to you. I dislike the idea that I as a pilot have to pay you in case you do something wrong.

 

[JEP]

I was, understandably, confused.

first two sentences after Here's Why:

....About a year and a half ago I was a newly minted instrument rated pilot. The flight program I was attending called for a commercial time build in which another student and myself would fly all over gaining hours and experience. ....

Ehh...Not so confusing.... ;-)

 

[JEP]

You may be a flight student.

But as an instrument rated pilot, you are hardly any sort of "student pilot".

he was a commercial student...

 

[Murdoughnut]

So if I understand correctly - you used a company's services and are still mad that they wanted you to pay for said services? As in, they sent a ramper out to you, marshalled your aircraft, gave you a space to park it?

I could see being angry at the $50 fee (a bit steep, naturally) ... but even as an instrument student I knew that I wasn't stopping at an FBO without paying something or buying some gas from them for their trouble.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

What FBOs are considered the good ones?

Keep in mind, this is my freight dog list.

Barker in KLRD
Wilsonair KHOU
CFM in KMQY
Harrison KGKY
Grand Aire KTOL

 

[pilotmec]

Dear "$$$$$$$air",

I have recently been thinking about my first (and probably only) experience at one of your FBOs. When thinking about this experience, I could not help but think about the amount of business your company may lose throughout my (hopefully long) aviation career.

Here's why;

About a year and a half ago I was a newly minted instrument rated pilot. The flight program I was attending called for a commercial time build in which another student and myself would fly all over gaining hours and experience. During this time, we visited quite a few different FBOs ranging from 'mom and pop' places, to the luxurious 'big name' FBOs such as yours. Our experience was mostly the same throughout the various FBOs. They were all friendly and helpful. Most would welcome us not only to their FBO, but into the world of aviation as new pilots.

One particular day, we chose one of your FBOs in south Florida as a quick restroom break on a time building flight. I did the usual homework, and called ahead. Your receptionist was friendly and told me that a quick restroom break was not a problem. We proceeded to fly to the destination. When we landed, we taxied to the transient parking section of your FBO as advised by the receptionist on the phone. Upon parking, a line guy walked up and asked if we needed any fuel. I said, "no thanks, just a quick restroom break." He replied, "no problem, let me know if you need anything." Normal, friendly, welcoming. We entered the FBO and I walked up to the desk. I asked the receptionist if she is the one I spoke to on the phone. She said, "yes, how was your flight?" I said, "great! Thanks."

My partner and I used the restroom and proceeded to walk out. When we reached the door it was locked. So I waved to the receptionist and said, "have a good day," hoping she would see us and open the door. She then advised us of the landing fee of $50. I was completely surprised and asked her what the fee was for. She informed me that any aircraft that parks on their ramp pays a $50 landing fee. My partner and I (broke student pilots) pleaded with her to waive the fee. I explained that she did not mention the fee on the phone. I even mentioned that the line guy did not advise us of the fee. I argued that we simply used the restroom. We did not use the pool table, eat the cookies, drink the soft drinks, or even use the computers to flight plan. Although I was highly irritated and surprised, I decided to pay the fee and just leave.

So why am I bringing it up a year and half later?

Well, the gentleman I now work for operates an air ambulance company. He has given me the task of assisting his dispatch with the flight planning, hotel/car reservations, and FBO reservation. One day he told me "$$$$$$$air" is on the field we are going, and to call ahead to make sure we can have a fuel truck standing by. I then told him the above story. He was outraged!! He operates a flight school and is a huge advocate for growing general aviation among young aviators. He asked me if I would go to your FBO if it were my money and my flight. I said, "honestly, no." So he said, "then neither will I."

I'm not asking for my money back in any way. I'm not asking for an apology. I understand it was your policy. I was respectful and paid. However, I do want to bring to light that the decision to charge $50 to minuscule student time builders, has subsequently cost your company a large amount of business.

As a company whose success is built primarily on the business of private and corporate aviation, it is saddening to think that your company is discouraging young aviators from general aviation. These young aviators will undoubtedly be the future of aviation some day. When these student pilots get to the point of making fuel and FBO decisions, why would they choose an FBO that did not cut them slack when they were "broke time builders"? I do not think they will. I did not.

The other FBOs that have landing fees would waive them for us student pilots. I figure it was a business move. Knowing that we may someday end up with a corporate fuel card and looking for an FBO to fill up with, they treated us with high regard.

So in conclusion;

What has/will that $50 exponentially cost your company? You do the math.

Sincerely,

The guy making FBO decisions for a large part 135 air ambulance/corporate flight department.

I understand your frustration.

However, I also understand why FBO's do this. (Don't agree with with it)

I had an FBO for 14 years and it could be irritating if someone came in and stayed all day, drinking coffee, using the toilet facilities (pilots can't seem to get it into the toilet), watching TV, driving the "quality" airport car and not buying gas for it or their plane and generally disrupting day to day operations. (We were a small FBO) but I refused to charge for someone to just use my facilities for a day because, like you, they could be in a bigger airplane someday and remember I did not take advantage of them.

I've also had to pay ramp fees for not using anything.

Now I can't even stop at a convenience store to pee without buying something.

 

[motormadness24]

What FBOs are considered the good ones?

Usually the best ones are the ones that are not apart of a chain of some sort. Your signatures and Landmarks of the world are generally no bueno. Although of the chains, I always liked going to SheltAir. They always seemed pretty good.

 

[jgheggie]

So if I understand correctly - you used a company's services and are still mad that they wanted you to pay for said services? As in, they sent a ramper out to you, marshalled your aircraft, gave you a space to park it?

I could see being angry at the $50 fee (a bit steep, naturally) ... but even as an instrument student I knew that I wasn't stopping at an FBO without paying something or buying some gas from them for their trouble.

That about sums it up.

But for the record...I parked myself in transient parking. No marsheller. He came up after I parked just to offer fuel.

Look...I'm not at all saying that businesses shouldn't charge. They obviously have to pay their bills. But it's the WHOLE situation together. All the small things that added up...ie, not telling me on the phone that they charge, the fact that the other FBO didn't charge, the fact that she lied and said its a "ramp fee" when infact the airport manager said they do not require a fee.

By the way...what service did I use of theirs? I made it clear I was in and out of the restroom. No cookies, no drinks, no computer, nothing.

So following your logic, have you ever paid Walmart to use the restroom? Or as I mentioned previously, have you been charged to test drive a car?

I have a minor in business. I have never been taught to charge for such minuscule things. Business is about customer service and encouraging purchases. It's about understanding your market and capitalizing on it. I believe young time building students are the future market.

 

[Murdoughnut]

That about sums it up.

But for the record...I parked myself in transient parking. No marsheller. He came up after I parked just to offer fuel.

Look...I'm not at all saying that businesses shouldn't charge. They obviously have to pay their bills. But it's the WHOLE situation together. All the small things that added up...ie, not telling me on the phone that they charge, the fact that the other FBO didn't charge, the fact that she lied and said its a "ramp fee" when infact the airport manager said they do not require a fee.

By the way...what service did I use of theirs? I made it clear I was in and out of the restroom. No cookies, no drinks, no computer, nothing.

So following your logic, have you ever paid Walmart to use the restroom? Or as I mentioned previously, have you been charged to test drive a car?

I have a minor in business. I have never been taught to charge for such minuscule things. Business is about customer service and encouraging purchases. It's about understanding your market and capitalizing on it. I believe young time building students are the future market.

I get your point and frustration, but at the same time, the restrooms are a service the FBO provides, as is the physical space they pay the airport for, that they then charge you for. They should have told you about the fee - that's just good customer service, but the "starving student" route doesn't play very well when you're still paying $100 an hour to rent an airplane.

 

[MikeD]

All the small things that added up...ie, not telling me on the phone that they charge,

Lesson learned: You have to ask, sometimes. Not everything will just be data-dumped to you. YOU have to do the homework.

the fact that the other FBO didn't charge, the fact that she lied and said its a "ramp fee" when infact the airport manager said they do not require a fee.

It may be semantics. "Ramp fee" being their ramp....the FBOs ramp. Having nothing to do with the airport itself.

It's about understanding your market and capitalizing on it. I believe young time building students are the future market.

Just stop saying "student pilot". Once you have your PPL, you're no longer a student pilot. A timebuilder is a pilot, who is building time. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jgheggie]

I get your point and frustration, but at the same time, the restrooms are a service the FBO provides, as is the physical space they pay the airport for, that they then charge you for. They should have told you about the fee - that's just good customer service, but the "starving student" route doesn't play very well when you're still paying $100 an hour to rent an airplane.

Fair enough

 

[A Life Aloft]

When you called the FBO and told them of your plans, did you specifically inquire about their fees or did you expect them just to mention/quote them?

 

[fholbert]

I landed my Viking in Montrose Colorado and the Jet Center directed me way down to the other end of the airport, about a mile away. The entire front of the FBO is open, guess that's for Jets. I assumed they would send a car for us, bad assumption. We tied the plane down and hiked to the FBO, got our rental car and asked that the gate be opened so we could drive down to our plane and get our luggage. Pulled up to the gate as directed waited for our escort... nothing. Biz jets are now pouring in and the FBO is going crazy, no one can escort us to the plane I own. (Come to find out a Cessna Jet folded it's gear in Tellurite closing the runway) Almost twenty minutes passed as we sat blocking the gate. Oprah was getting 1st class service, I got nothing. Finally went back in the Jet Center and someone let us through the gate and escorted us to our plane.

Next day we were going to fly over the Leadville. The lady at the Jet Center said; Pull up to the gate and they would open it for us. I kind of exploded; "I'm not playing your stupid games anymore..." and told the entire story of the day before. Pretty sure everyone in the Jet Center heard me including a manager who's now at the counter. She wants to call the owner at home so I can speak with him directly. I responded I'd leave the owner a message on AirNav.com and walked away.

By the time we untied the plane, added some oil and washed the windshield the FBO owner is at my plane followed in short order by the airport manager.

The Jet Center owner is extremely apologetic and came bearing gifts. Chap stick, hats, shirts and discounted fuel.

The airport manager was an ass saying no airport would let a transient pilot drive on the ramp (never mind it was okay to taxi). Where's my home airport badge? I hadn't done a sufficient pre-flight or I would have know the Jet Center number so I could call them for a pick up (before iPad).

The following three days I got the Oprah treatment. It was clear the FBO was doing their best under a very poor airport manager so I never did leave AirNav feedback.

If I was the OP of this thread I'd be leaving comments on AirNav and get my friend to do so also.

 

[jgheggie]

Lesson learned: You have to ask, sometimes. Not everything will just be data-dumped to you. YOU have to do the homework.



It may be semantics. "Ramp fee" being their ramp....the FBOs ramp. Having nothing to do with the airport itself.



Just stop saying "student pilot". Once you have your PPL, you're no longer a student pilot. A timebuilder is a pilot, who is building time. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're right.

But hey! I said time builder! Not student pilot this time

 

[MikeD]

You're right.

But hey! I said time builder! Not student pilot this time

Granted, your abilities and knowledge may potentially still be at the level of a student pilot; but by definition, you are no longer one.

 

[jgheggie]

When you called the FBO and told them of your plans, did you specifically inquire about their fees or did you expect them just to mention/quote them?

Yes! Well sort of....the website had a fees section. It said under 1 hour was $50. And "landing fee" $50. Then at the bottom it said transient day parking---$0. So I now know that it's $50 to land and free to park in transient I guess??

So when I called I did NOT specifically ask if there was a fee. However, I did say something to the effect of "so if I park in transient parking and just use the restroom then that's ok?" And she said yes.

Ill admit there was some miscommunication. But the point is still valid. Sometimes you give a little to make a customer happy. Even if they didn't purchase something RIGHT THEN.