Moving on

chrisreedrules said:
That’s not happening. Neither of us want to move. Kids and family are here. We live a few blocks from the beach. Life is good.
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Would you rather have more time to actually see your kids or be near the beach? Setting that aside, and set UAL aside (based on bases and commute) I’d probably say Delta is the better choice just because of management, ease of commute, and overall financial position. Either will be fine though.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Need help with a decision... I think I know where I want to go, but I don't want to be missing something in the decision making process.

I'm at an AA wholly-owned regional and I have CJOs with both United and Delta. I also flow to American in about 5 months as well.
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If your flow is 5 months away I'd go with either United or Delta if that would get you in class there sooner. That 5 months could easily become a lifetime if there is indeed a recession, or if the recent surge in oil prices does lead to the round of airline bankruptcies, mass furloughs and "Compassages" I fear it will.

Congratulations on the CJOs though, and best of luck with the decision!
 
Don't forget that you'll keep your WO date of hire for non rev purposes at AA. That will be helpful on the commute.

I'd say Delta or AA. Doesn't really make much of a difference today, and you'll have no idea what the difference would have been until you retire.
 
BobDDuck said:
Don't forget that you'll keep your WO date of hire for non rev purposes at AA. That will be helpful on the commute.

I'd say Delta or AA. Doesn't really make much of a difference today, and you'll have no idea what the difference would have been until you retire.
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Nonrev is time of check in, so LOS is irrelevant.
 
zmiller4 said:
I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of those options. AA sounds like a net $110k out of the gate, which probably means you could retire a few years earlier (or buy a reasonably sweet boat). But agree with you on its financial situation.

If I were in your shoes I’d probably go to delta because of the ATL option. 10 flights a day? Awesome. And in a pinch (like your kid is graduating the next day or something) the option of getting a rental and driving is there.
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Getting a 5 month head start at a legacy could easily surpass the $110k you get waiting.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Need help with a decision... I think I know where I want to go, but I don't want to be missing something in the decision making process.

I'm at an AA wholly-owned regional and I have CJOs with both United and Delta. I also flow to American in about 5 months as well. First world problems, I know.

I live in north Florida and commute out of JAX. DAB, SAV, and GNV have all served as commute airports as needed though they are all less than preferable compared to JAX.

If I go to United, I will likely bid EWR 737. Gives me 5 flights /day. IAD is also an option but I would only have 3 flights /day there. Pros for United are that there is a lot of different flying opportunities and it would seem that being able to upgrade on a narrow body will happen quickly. Or I can hold a line on a widebody in 7ish years and enjoy that lifestyle. Overall I'd enjoy more career earnings at United though just looking at upgrade and widebody opportunities. Cons for United are that the commute looks a little brutal. Like not fun brutal. No early flights into EWR so I'll need late shows to get to work. I'm also not super fond of United's system for listing for the jump. I get it, seniority trumps everything. But I don't like that I can be bumped off the jump even close to departure by a pilot more senior to me running up to the gate. And there are certainly plenty of more senior United pilots that commute out of JAX.

Delta... Delta has the ATL base and there are 10+ flights /day to and from ATL. There is a 5AM flight to ATL and a 10:30PM flight home to JAX. Also reserve at Delta is probably the best of all 3 legacies. All long call reserve convertible to short call up to 6 times /month. Sounds pretty good to me especially given my commuting options. But if I'm going to be commuting Delta has more flights /day from JAX to LGA than United does to EWR. Cons for Delta are that I feel like I'm hitting the backside of their hiring wave and they have less retirements so my seniority progression won't be as rapid as it would at say United or certainly American. Also in about 10 years I'd only be about 50-60% on the 73ATL and only just barely able to hold a Captain seat as the plug on a narrow body in ATL.

American... By far the best bases and the best commuting options for me. CLT, DFW, MIA, PHL, DCA. All commutable from JAX. Pros for AA are that I wouldn't have to pay back the $30,000 retention bonus. And I'd also receive about $80,000 in additional bonuses just for flowing. AA is also retiring almost 1,000 pilots /year for the next 4-5 years. Lots of movement very quickly. Cons for AA are that I think APA isn't nearly as effective and ALPA at labor representation. I also think AA management isn't as good as the teams at both United and Delta. I'm also highly concerned about a looming bankruptcy for AA and what that may mean for my career in the short term. Especially as we are seeing all the warning signs of an impending recession.

WWYD
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Hands down Delta… the $30k payback will hurt but long term that will just be a hiccup compared to long term dividends. Moving not an option? Choose the closest base that has little chance of closing. Choose the company with the best financials to hedge your bets against an economic downturn. Choose a company with the least amount of drama to protect your sanity over the next 20 years.
The end result… the way I see it Delta. Make your own determination and enjoy your career!
 
my friend at AA told me a story
he said this year several WO flows have leveraged their offer letters with other legacies with AA, gotten hired outside the flow, collected their 100k retention bonus after starting indoc, then quit and started at another legacy they had an offer from

Which is 100% what I would do if I were a salty RJ pilot looking to dunk on the mothership and peace out
 
chrisreedrules said:
Need help with a decision... I think I know where I want to go, but I don't want to be missing something in the decision making process.

I'm at an AA wholly-owned regional and I have CJOs with both United and Delta. I also flow to American in about 5 months as well. First world problems, I know.

I live in north Florida and commute out of JAX. DAB, SAV, and GNV have all served as commute airports as needed though they are all less than preferable compared to JAX.

If I go to United, I will likely bid EWR 737. Gives me 5 flights /day. IAD is also an option but I would only have 3 flights /day there. Pros for United are that there is a lot of different flying opportunities and it would seem that being able to upgrade on a narrow body will happen quickly. Or I can hold a line on a widebody in 7ish years and enjoy that lifestyle. Overall I'd enjoy more career earnings at United though just looking at upgrade and widebody opportunities. Cons for United are that the commute looks a little brutal. Like not fun brutal. No early flights into EWR so I'll need late shows to get to work. I'm also not super fond of United's system for listing for the jump. I get it, seniority trumps everything. But I don't like that I can be bumped off the jump even close to departure by a pilot more senior to me running up to the gate. And there are certainly plenty of more senior United pilots that commute out of JAX.

Delta... Delta has the ATL base and there are 10+ flights /day to and from ATL. There is a 5AM flight to ATL and a 10:30PM flight home to JAX. Also reserve at Delta is probably the best of all 3 legacies. All long call reserve convertible to short call up to 6 times /month. Sounds pretty good to me especially given my commuting options. But if I'm going to be commuting Delta has more flights /day from JAX to LGA than United does to EWR. Cons for Delta are that I feel like I'm hitting the backside of their hiring wave and they have less retirements so my seniority progression won't be as rapid as it would at say United or certainly American. Also in about 10 years I'd only be about 50-60% on the 73ATL and only just barely able to hold a Captain seat as the plug on a narrow body in ATL.

American... By far the best bases and the best commuting options for me. CLT, DFW, MIA, PHL, DCA. All commutable from JAX. Pros for AA are that I wouldn't have to pay back the $30,000 retention bonus. And I'd also receive about $80,000 in additional bonuses just for flowing. AA is also retiring almost 1,000 pilots /year for the next 4-5 years. Lots of movement very quickly. Cons for AA are that I think APA isn't nearly as effective and ALPA at labor representation. I also think AA management isn't as good as the teams at both United and Delta. I'm also highly concerned about a looming bankruptcy for AA and what that may mean for my career in the short term. Especially as we are seeing all the warning signs of an impending recession.

WWYD
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You can’t go wrong with either one like a few others have said. I’d go with Delta for my own reasons. It depends on what you want. If international is your thing UA or AA might be better with the number of retirements they have coming up. Hopefully the PS commuting becomes a permanent thing. It made life a lot easier when I was at 9E and I commuted across the country. Where did you come up with the 50-60% number for 73N ATL? Just curious.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Need help with a decision... I think I know where I want to go, but I don't want to be missing something in the decision making process.

I'm at an AA wholly-owned regional and I have CJOs with both United and Delta. I also flow to American in about 5 months as well. First world problems, I know.

I live in north Florida and commute out of JAX. DAB, SAV, and GNV have all served as commute airports as needed though they are all less than preferable compared to JAX.

If I go to United, I will likely bid EWR 737. Gives me 5 flights /day. IAD is also an option but I would only have 3 flights /day there. Pros for United are that there is a lot of different flying opportunities and it would seem that being able to upgrade on a narrow body will happen quickly. Or I can hold a line on a widebody in 7ish years and enjoy that lifestyle. Overall I'd enjoy more career earnings at United though just looking at upgrade and widebody opportunities. Cons for United are that the commute looks a little brutal. Like not fun brutal. No early flights into EWR so I'll need late shows to get to work. I'm also not super fond of United's system for listing for the jump. I get it, seniority trumps everything. But I don't like that I can be bumped off the jump even close to departure by a pilot more senior to me running up to the gate. And there are certainly plenty of more senior United pilots that commute out of JAX.

Delta... Delta has the ATL base and there are 10+ flights /day to and from ATL. There is a 5AM flight to ATL and a 10:30PM flight home to JAX. Also reserve at Delta is probably the best of all 3 legacies. All long call reserve convertible to short call up to 6 times /month. Sounds pretty good to me especially given my commuting options. But if I'm going to be commuting Delta has more flights /day from JAX to LGA than United does to EWR. Cons for Delta are that I feel like I'm hitting the backside of their hiring wave and they have less retirements so my seniority progression won't be as rapid as it would at say United or certainly American. Also in about 10 years I'd only be about 50-60% on the 73ATL and only just barely able to hold a Captain seat as the plug on a narrow body in ATL.

American... By far the best bases and the best commuting options for me. CLT, DFW, MIA, PHL, DCA. All commutable from JAX. Pros for AA are that I wouldn't have to pay back the $30,000 retention bonus. And I'd also receive about $80,000 in additional bonuses just for flowing. AA is also retiring almost 1,000 pilots /year for the next 4-5 years. Lots of movement very quickly. Cons for AA are that I think APA isn't nearly as effective and ALPA at labor representation. I also think AA management isn't as good as the teams at both United and Delta. I'm also highly concerned about a looming bankruptcy for AA and what that may mean for my career in the short term. Especially as we are seeing all the warning signs of an impending recession.

WWYD
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IMO AA isn't the best option. United is very similar to AA in many regards except they have a better business model and Delta is *currently* positioned best for the future.

United or Delta seem like your best options long-term IMO. Then again I could be completely wrong. Predicting the future is kinda hard.
 
Maurus said:
IMO AA isn't the best option. United is very similar to AA in many regards except they have a better business model and Delta is *currently* positioned best for the future.

United or Delta seem like your best options long-term IMO. Then again I could be completely wrong. Predicting the future is kinda hard.
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How are AA's and UAL so similar in many regards? How does these similatrities differ so much from delta?
 
Little Carmine said:
How are AA's and UAL so similar in many regards? How does these similatrities differ so much from delta?
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Base structure, fleets, tons of international flying. Texas, ORD, NYC, DC, LA. Definitely a good chunk of overlap.

Delta has less international flying and has been focused more on codesharing for the international market. Their bases are also in many completely different areas. Specifically in the mid-US. That could make a big difference with commutes. Delta's fleet plan seems a bit different as well. Specifically with buying Airbus products rather than Boeing. Some people simply get a hard on for flying Boeing heavies.

Currently Delta looks like they will be the first airline to emerge with consistent profits followed by UA not long after. AA is forecast to struggle for some time and will likely post a loss for 2022 as well. AA also has had the worst financial performance over the last decade (especially considering their size) prior to covid which makes their large debt load more of a concern than UAs large debt load. Last I checked Delta is sitting at ~60% of the debt load that UA and AA have.

All of this can change and I could be very wrong in some regards. This is just what I have found with my research over the years.
 
Maurus said:
Base structure, fleets, tons of international flying. Texas, ORD, NYC, DC, LA. Definitely a good chunk of overlap.

Delta has less international flying and has been focused more on codesharing for the international market. Their bases are also in many completely different areas. Specifically in the mid-US. That could make a big difference with commutes. Delta's fleet plan seems a bit different as well. Specifically with buying Airbus products rather than Boeing. Some people simply get a hard on for flying Boeing heavies.

Currently Delta looks like they will be the first airline to emerge with consistent profits followed by UA not long after. AA is forecast to struggle for some time and will likely post a loss for 2022 as well. AA also has had the worst financial performance over the last decade (especially considering their size) prior to covid which makes their large debt load more of a concern than UAs large debt load. Last I checked Delta is sitting at ~60% of the debt load that UA and AA have.

All of this can change and I could be very wrong in some regards. This is just what I have found with my research over the years.
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Yeah, American's current liabilities exceed their current assets, as well as their long term liabilities and assets. Their revenue hasn't even hit 2015 numbers yet, and they've been cashflow negative 7/10 years. They're in deep doo doo.
 
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